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Originally Posted by UntoHim
Evan, you wouldn't know what "most of Christianity is preoccupied with" anymore than the man on the moon. You are in the Local Church of Witness Lee, which is one of the most insular and isolated Christian sects around. Witness Lee was decidedly ignorant regarding what God was doing in Christianity in general, but he was especially clueless when it came to what great and marvelous things were happening among evangelical Christians, especially an entire generation of seeking young Americans. What's most ironic is the fact that all this was happening right there in Southern California, where Witness Lee set up camp in Los Angeles, and later in Anaheim. Now if the Blended Brothers are any indication, nothing has changed in the Local Church since Lee's death over 20 years ago. The group is just as insular and isolated as ever.
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Regarding your first paragraph, I am a relative late comer to the recovery with a long history in denominations, so I know something. I never had the chance to know Lee personally but I am acquainted with the issues in Christianity. With the exception of individuals and their works like Madame Guyon, I believe broad Christianity fits the description as I stated, of not really seeking to gain Christ or even knowing what it means. I think a typical response for a person when asked if they have gained Christ might be "huh?", even though it is straight from the words of Paul.
In born again Christianity, many have seen that a personal relationship with Christ is necessary for salvation. They see that there is some sort of inadequacy there in understanding how we are saved. They might typically ask someone "do you have a personal relationship with Christ" as opposed to "do you believe in Christ?". A Judas or a demon could answer yes to both of those questions. Lee takes this one step further to ask the question "have you gained Christ?" which I think is better.
Many evangelical preachers for example, Ray Comfort, simply add more rules and more laws to their preaching, to try and sift through those who claim to know Christ and those who "really know Him". I think Comfort knows that simply getting someone to say "I believe in Christ" is not adequate, so he uses the method of law-preaching to make "true converts". A better way is probably to just preach about gaining Christ which implies not only a genuine knowledge of Christ, but also to have or gain Him as someone of worth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by UntoHim
There is so much wrong with this that I don't even know where to begin. Should I list the problems in numerical or alphabetical order?
Gaining Christ? I'm afraid you're going to have to decode this terminology for us Mr E. I mean, I know what it meant to the apostle Paul. He was willing to suffer evil, beatings, hunger and nakedness to show others what it really is to gain Christ. Christian martyrs throughout the ages have given their blood, sweat and tears to give us the Scriptures in our native languages, thus allowing us to gain the Christ that is found in those hallowed pages.
It seems that Witness Lee has come along with another definition, another understanding of what it is to gain Christ. Oh, don't bother telling me about how wonderful and glorious it is to gain Christ by calling on the Lord, pray-reading and eating Jesus. Been there - Done that. What I want to hear from you, my friend, is just exactly how has all the calling, pray-reading, eating, pumping fists in the air and shouting slogans enabled you to gain Christ? Even more importantly, how have all these things helped you to help others to gain Christ? [/COLOR]
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I appreciate you taking some time. I think it highlights that I did not explain very well what gaining Christ is or means, I only gave examples.
As for the meaning of gaining Christ, Darby says it best - "to gain Christ is to have Christ as gain". Others interpret it to mean "we must suffer loss so we may gain Christ" which I disagree with, it's not about suffering to gain Christ. To gain Christ we do not have to perform some work or become a martyr, but there is an element of self-denial and not loving the world, because if we love something more than Christ it will be very hard to gain Him (it is harder for a rich man...). Regardless of anyone's experiences, praying, pray-reading and "eating Jesus" are ways we can gain Christ, but those practices themselves are not gaining Christ. To gain Christ means to have Christ as gain which implies to see and know Christ as someone of value more than other people or things.
To only see Christ but not gain Him is to only appreciate Him. Judas Iscariot saw Christ every day, he had a personal relationship with Christ, he knew Christ and no doubt appreciated him as his master and teacher, but unlike the disciples John and Peter, did not see Christ's worth. He was easily led to betray Christ for silver. Judas knew Christ but he gained silver. He had silver as his gain, not Christ. Peter and John however knew Christ and gained Christ.