Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah
Drake: Now here is what I have noticed. As concerns the local churches and His assessments, judgements, commendation, condemnation, and call to individuals to overcome the shortcomings in those local churches many posters here appeal, as a counter to the Lords clear demands in the letters in Revelation, to the sayings of, as aron sums up, "a guy named Jesus" in the gospels. So "judge not lest you be judged" in the gospels is not a direct match to ""But you have this in your favor: You hate the practices of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate." revealed in Revelation. That is because the Jesus revealed in the gospels is not complete. It is part of the story. It is only when we come to Revelation that we see our High Priest, Jesus, caring for the churches in His glorified position in the heavenly tabernacle. There we see not a lowly man on Earth.
I saw this post and I don't think Drake has negated the Jesus we see in the gospels, only the interpretation "judge not lest you be judged" is somehow a condemnation of judging things like the practices of the Nicolaitans.
Even if you look at the portion of the gospels where Jesus says "judge not lest you be judged" he also says "give not that which is holy to the dogs" and "cast not your pearls before swine". Now you can interpret that literally which doesn't make any sense, otherwise you have to interpret that he is telling us to make certain judgements about "dogs" and "pigs".
Therefore I have always concluded that Jesus does not tell us not to judge, that is a very clear misunderstanding. He only tells us not to judge others. Instead He charges us to judge ourselves repeatedly, not only in the gospels but also in Revelation.
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Many people do not understand what Jesus was teaching because they have combined the Bible with worldly culture which is afraid to offend and afraid to be offended. Particularly, Jesus was speaking about
hypocritical and self-righteous judgement as seen in Luke 6:42.
Jesus said:
How can you say to your brother, 'Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,' when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye?
and then said
You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.
Many people misinterpret these verses to mean:
"Do not judge your brother because you have a plank in your eye if you judge your brother who has a speck".
It does not say that at all. It says that after addressing the hypocrisy, once you can "see clearly", then you can proceed to remove the speck from your brother's eye. This would be considered righteous judgement.
The state of society as a whole would be worse if no body could judge anybody. No parent could correct their child, no government could charge a criminal, and no one would be answerable to anybody except themselves.
Based on the Bible it seems that church should be the place where people are judged the most. It describes the church bringing people into judgement:
1 Cor 14:24 But if an unbeliever or an inquirer comes in while everyone is prophesying, they are convicted of sin and are
brought under judgment by all,
1 Cor 14:25 as the secrets of their hearts are laid bare. So they will fall down and worship God, exclaiming, "God is really among you!"
Paul also said:
1 Cor 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more the things that pertain to this life?
We simply cannot reconcile a view of not judging others with these verses.