Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness
The problem is, Christianity, including the LC, is made up of sinners, from top to bottom, head to toe ; it's full of fallen flawed human beings.
Speaking of elders in the LC being vessels of dishonor, of course not all are. But some are.
For instance. I was in a situation, between a couple of brothers. I knew for a fact which brother was telling the truth. The elders listened to each of us and then prayed. I sat while the elders prayed, and then after their prayer, they decided in favor for the lying cheating brother, I guess because he gave burning testimonies in the meetings, but the prayer made it because the Lord said so.
The elders were clearly vessels of dishonor. I couldn't trust them any more, to be leading by the Lord's guidance. They obviously weren't in touch with the Lord.
I also know of an elder in Spokane, who was the first gay lover of a brother I knew in the c. in Ft. Lauderdale, who came out as gay. He was in touch with his former lover. The elder shared with him that he was going out and hooking up with boys ; another vessel of dishonor ... of elders in the R(r)covery.
Sinners I tell ya. Christianity is made up of fallen flawed human beings. Just read Lily Hsu's book to find out how fallen Watchman Nee was. He was worse than Philip and Timothy Lee - and Lee covered for all of them.
How can we ever hope to fix that? It's been going on since the beginning of Christianity. Look at all the problems Paul was dealing with. We're still dealing with those kinds of problems today. Bemoan it all you want, but, nothing has changed.
|
Awareness,
You are addressing a very big matter: The flesh we always have with us.
However, it is possible to overcome, for if not then His life would be inadequate and we know that it is not. He is the Firstborn among many brothers. He overcame and by His life we, as His many brothers, are enabled to overcome. To what extent we will not know until the Day of the Lord when all judgment is meted out by Him. Our starting point is different for we were born sinners. He, of course, was not. But we have His life and He is a righteous Judge.
But, I think it is important to understand that overcomers in each of the seven churches are overcoming their circumstances and they are held accountable for that. In the same way I believe that the Lord will judge us accordingly. We are not responsible for overcoming the circumstances of others. We have our own to overcome. I am reminded often when considering this about one of the final dialogues between the Lord and Peter before He ascended. Peter was just informed by the Lord that he (Peter) would die a martyrs death. Peter then inquired about John.
John 21
"Jesus said, “Feed my sheep. 18Very truly I tell you, when you were younger you dressed yourself and went where you wanted; but when you are old you will stretch out your hands, and someone else will dress you and lead you where you do not want to go.” 19Jesus said this to indicate the kind of death by which Peter would glorify God. Then he said to him, “Follow me!”
20Peter turned and saw that the disciple whom Jesus loved was following them. (This was the one who had leaned back against Jesus at the supper and had said, “Lord, who is going to betray you?”) 21When Peter saw him, he asked, “Lord, what about him?”
22Jesus answered, “If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? You must follow me.” 23Because of this, the rumor spread among the believers that this disciple would not die. But Jesus did not say that he would not die; he only said, “If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you?”
thanks
Drake