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Old 04-29-2018, 05:13 PM   #221
Jo S
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Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Ohio
Posts: 488
Default Re: Now's good - byHismercy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evangelical View Post
To make clear, I was not arguing about whether Satan was Lucifer or not. I was making the point that just as the Bible does not say explicitly "sin is Satan in the flesh", neither does it say "Satan is Lucifer".

Satan in general is a tricky thing to discuss from the old testament Bible because the Jews don't believe in Satan the same as the Christians. They believe that Satan is more of a servant of God doing His will, and the Hebrew bible reflects that. For example, in Job, God and Satan get together in heaven to have a chat about what to do with Job. This presents Satan more as a servant of God used to test Job.




The word Lucifer appears only once in the whole bible in Isaiah 14:12.

Isaiah 14:4 shows who the name Lucifer is talking about:

"you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon: ..."

Scholars do not unanimously agree. This apologetics site explains why Satan is not Lucifer.

http://ap.lanexdev.com/APContent.asp...1&article=1091
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You were arguing with a point you mutual agree on with byHismercy for the sake of conflict it seems. And now you're posting links that argue a side of the debate that you say you don't even agree with. Why?

Not only does the bible not say "sin is Satan in the flesh" it doesn't even remotely allude to such a thing. At least with Lucifer being Satan, you can compare OT and NT terminology and confidently affirm this as being fact. Even if you just look at the language in Isaiah 14, it's clear to me who he's really taking about. Men don't fall from heaven...

As for your point about Jews viewing Satan as a servant of God. I really hope you don't believe that personally.

Jesus was a Jew. In fact he was more Jewish than most, wouldn't you agree? What was his view of Satan? Servant of God or adversary of God? That should be an easy one.

Jews don't view Satan as a servant of God, you may think Jews view Satan as a servant of God.

To me, by even thinking this it shows me there is a much darker underlying work going on here anti-semetic in nature. I look at Job and see an all powerful God that won't let any one of his people be harmed unless he allows it. Satan here is a slave, not a servant.

And I didn't say "scholars" all agree, I said "Christian scholars". It's mostly secular and gnostic types that argue Isaiah 14 doesn't point to Satan. I'd suggest looking into the author of the article you linked to, Bert Thompson, before using him as a source.
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