Quote:
Originally Posted by Thankful Jane
Hi Igzy,
Why do you believe that one has to be deceived in order to sin? Are you thinking that no one would want to sin against God, and so if they did it would have to mean they were fooled or tricked into doing so? This does seem logical.
However, maybe one can sin without being deceived. I think I have a possible example: wanting something that isn't yours (coveting) (as Satan did when he coveted God's place). You don't have to be deceived to decide you want something that isn't yours.
Maybe we could say that Satan was self-deceived to believe he could actually take God's place. In the same way Adam could have become self-deceived.
In 1 Tim 2:14 the word "deceived" means "seduced." For someone to be deceived or seduced means another party is involved and to blame for what happens. So, Eve was clearly seduced by Satan; whereas, since the Bible plainly says Adam was not deceived (seduced by another), thus Adam could have sinned out of self-deception like the devil did.
Just a thought.
Thankful Jane
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For many years I have considered what it means to "sin" - particularly in relation to "being deceived." Actually, prior to following this conversation, and even still, I consider a sin - by definition - to be "living in deception." Perhaps not consciously.
Satan is the "Father of Liars". Since his fall, he
created deception part and parcel with sin.
John 1:3 says "All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made."
When Lucifer fell, he wasn't making a choice between "God" and "evil."
Nothing existed besides God. What Lucifer chose was "not God" - that is, he chose something that
didn't exist. He chose a lie. Satan's entire existence is founded upon non-existence, non-reality. The entire world has emerged from a foundation of something that does not exist.
The Word says "The wages of sin are death." Re-phrased: "The wages of a lie are non-existence." In a lie, a foundation that is not God, yourexist in a world that has no real source - it is constructed and empty.
Anything in that world is "sin" - because its source is a choice for something that does not exist.
A man might "consciously" chose to covet his neighbor's possession, and because it is "conscious" we might say he is not "deceived." He is deceived. The created man does not covet and has not desire to covet (aside from the external influence of the Father of Liars, that is, "deception"). The desire to covet is based upon an eternal deception, one that governs the man whose source is not God - the totality of reality.
That's all a tangent from the tangent from this thread, but the discussion struck a chord with something I've been considering as of late. Forgive the divergence...
Peter
P.S. I missed the thoughtful posts of Igzy and SpeakersCorner before I posted this. They cover similar ground and disagree with what I'm saying, respectively. I'll let my post stand as it is and come what may...
