Quote:
Originally Posted by Drake
Igzy,
Will you agree that a co-worker may come in and appoint elders and set things in order? If so, why can a co-worker appoint an elder but not remove an elder?
Drake
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Not in the way of practically owning a church as the LCM does. The worker can come and advise, and the church can cooperate with him. But the church does not have to. That's between them and the Lord. Just like any decision is between a person and the Lord.
Clearly in the New Testament some Christians chose to no longer follow Paul. Whether that was right or wrong in particular instances, it was clearly their right. What is the apostle going to do if the church says, "We appreciate your advice but we are going a different way"? Is he going to put the lead elder in a headlock? Is he going to march into the church meeting with arms and take over? Is he going to declare the church "rebellious" or "leprous"? Paul did none of these things. He had his point of view and thought what he had to offer was good for churches, but only took the authority the churches gave him. He never forced himself on any church and he never condemned a church for not following him.
Even so, as I said, I do not believe Apostles of the type of Paul, Peter and John even exist anymore. There are still apostles, but not with the kind of power they had. You said this had no scriptural basis, but it does:
Paul said the sign of an Apostle was being able to work miracles. This is clear in 2 Cor 12:12. So, either (1) apostles who can't work miracles are not really apostles, or (2) Paul was talking about a special kind of Apostle. I think it is #2. Paul also implied that this kind of Apostle had physically "seen Jesus" (1 Cor 9:1).
Clearly there are "sent ones" now. In a sense we are all sent ones. But there are none of the type of Paul, Peter and John. These men could work miracles, they could define truth, they could author Scripture, they had firsthand experience of seeing Jesus physically. They had more power in the churches. But even so they did not throw their weight around and they did not accuse churches of being leprous for not following them. If they did not do this then certainly Lee and his henchmen don't have such authority.
Please don't say this has no scriptural basis, unless you can give a plausible different explanation for 2 Cor 12:12. Don't tell me I have no basis for this belief. You may not agree with it, but it has a basis.
If a worker comes along who can heal people and raise the dead and get bitten by snakes or be stoned and not be affected, like Paul, then he can dictate to my church who should be the elders. Until then, his counsel will be taken under advisement.