Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio
This is the kind of disingenuous argument which LSMers long to make, which is why it is so hard to believe anything they say.
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He continues to argue "common sense". But if we use common sense it is obvious that all of the Christians in a large city will not ever all meet together in a single meeting. The largest possible venues would be stadiums that hold a tiny fraction of the total number of Christians in that city. Also, a meeting in a stadium with 100,000 does not resemble the meetings described in Icor 14.
Therefore I think it is common sense that one church in one city cannot refer to one meeting, one meeting hall, or even the same few elders. When I was in Houston they had 4 or even 5 elders for 200. Odessa had 3 elders for less than 100. NY had 3 elders and 2 full time workers for a little more than 200. How many elders would you need if instead of 200 you had 200,000? You might need 5,000. NYC probably has at least 2 million Christians, so you could need 50,000 elders.
Oneness of the Body of Christ is crucial, and there is no doubt that Paul saw one church in one city. But common sense would dictate that this oneness cannot be due to one set of elders, or one meeting hall, or one common gathering on a periodic basis. The oneness is the fellowship of the Apostles. The oneness is that all of these meetings are meeting "in the name of Jesus".
All of the other gimmicks -- elders appointed by WL, city boundary, etc. These are the trappings of a franchise. LSM the publisher has turned the kingdom of God into a franchise. In this sense LSM would be Jezebel, sitting as a Queen that has no business ruling in Israel.
No doubt Evangelical will twist these words as he always does to have me say whatever his straw man is. I don't dispute that these gatherings need elders. Larger churches need an office, elders, deacons, and a variety of leaders in order to run. But that is not what makes us one, nor is it what makes us a "gathering of the called out ones", nor is it what causes our prayers to be answered or what makes us one with the Lord on the throne. These ones were not crucified for us, we are not baptized into their names, and they will not be sitting in judgement when we appear before the Lord.