[Steel]

Originally Posted by aron

The quote above fronts such a vast sea of ignorance that one hardly knows where to start addressing it.

Well...

I see that in your vanity you have certainly attempted to give it the good 'ol attboy effort.

Let's see how you did...

Originally Posted by aron

I can see that Steel is comfortable swimming in such waters, but for the sake of the readers I’ll try a few comments.

In Christ Jesus I'm comfortable swimming in any waters... Including the waters found on this website.

Originally Posted by aron

First of all, if you read Ohio’s post (#928), you'll see what 'fellowship' in the LSM churches actually consists of.

Well...

Seeing that this week I participated in lunch fellowship with three believers who meet with the local church (three separate lunches)... And participate every day in fellowship with my wife who also meets with the local church... And just this morning participated in a wonderful Lord's Day meeting with around 60 other believers... I'd say that I have a pretty good idea of what fellowship within the local church here in Austin consists of.

But my actual current experience aside...

I fully understand your need to ignore my actual current experience and instead try and present the long past experience of someone else.

It's normal for those who hold to their offended feelings to do just that — live in the past.

But let's move on from my being able to speak in and out of my actual current experience... To what you have to say below...

Originally Posted by aron

As Ray Graver put it to Bill Mallon, “We do what we are told”..."

Nobody told me to meet with the three believers I had lunch with this week.

Nobody told me to meet with my wife.

Nobody told me to participate in this morning's meeting.

Nobody told me what to say when I stood up and prophesied for almost three minutes... Which is a minute longer than what is asked of us to limit ourselves to so that others can have time to share.

And I didn't see anyone telling the people who were enjoying what I was sharing that they had to enjoy my sharing.

But... Again... This is simply my... actual... current... experience that I am speaking from.

Let's go back to your presentation of a third parties long past experience.

Originally Posted by aron

That was in the hey-day of Philip Lee as the office,...

You mean 30 years ago.

You do realize that we're now in 2018... And not 1988, right.

Are you unable to find a more recent example?

Tell you what...

How about referencing my own actual current experience.

But nah... That would mean that you would be referencing the actual experience of someone who doesn't support the negativity that you hold so dearly to.

Originally Posted by aron

...but today it’s little changed: Do what you are told."

Can't say I've experienced that since I started meeting with the local church back in 2003.

But I can only speak for my actual experience in two localities.

How many are you speaking about from your own actual experience, aron?

Or does that even matter to you.

Originally Posted by aron

...I do appreciate RG’s candor. And it's not coincidental that he's long-time "right hand man" to the current LSM president.

You do realize that he is just... one... person, right.

Like in... just... one member of the body of Christ, right.

And that you do realize that there are other believers who meet with the local churches.

Or has this not occurred to you.

Originally Posted by aron

...Second, regarding ‘mutual respect’ which you say society values.

Actually...

I said no such thing... Which makes your above quoted statement dishonest.

This is what everyone reading this can see for themselves that I actually said...

"In today's society, fellowship is considered to be the exchanging of thoughts between people... In and through and environment of mutual respect and receiving of these thoughts by each of the participants."

See aron... Nothing above about "...society values...".

If you're going to be speaking about what people say/suggest... Try and be accurate/honest.

It's kind of what we're called to do as born again believers in Christ Jesus.

Originally Posted by aron

...A little of that in the LSM would go a long way.

Mutual respect is what scripture tells is is a good human expression.

But as you should know from your own experience... And as I know from my own experience... It's a work in progressive for all of us born again believers.

Originally Posted by aron

...Fact is... Where is love, if there's no respect?

Well... That's a great question.

"Can there be respect for each other, even just human respect, if there is no love?"

The answer is "Yes."

Humans can express a level of natural humanly generated respect for other humans... Without having even human love for these other humans... Are we can know this by our own daily life experiences.

But scripture tells us that this type of natural humanly generated respect is just vanity.

As is even our natural humanly generated love.

And scripture is all about the need for us to be transformed out of our natural humanity — where natural humanly generated things come out of — into humans who possess, abide in, and live out divine life... The divine life we receive when we are born again of the Spirit.

Originally Posted by aron

...There is no mutuality in the LSM cosmos. It's all top-down fiat. Fellowship, by any conventional meaning, simply doesn’t exist.

Thankfully... I don't expect there to be any.

And neither should anyone who is familiar with the reality scripture reveals expect there to be either.

Are you not familiar with the following scripture verse...

Mark 10:18... "And Jesus said to him, Why do you call Me good? No one is good except One -- God."

Originally Posted by aron

...Now to holding the truth: When John the Baptist came out of the desert, and they asked him, “Are you the Christ [Messiah]?”, and “Are you the Prophet?”, those concepts were formed and passing through the populace. There was a back-drop of cultural expectations. The dialog of the gospels didn't occur in a cultural or conceptual vacuum.

Surely not... God's creation isn't a vacuum.

But just as surely we can know...

Romans 11:36... "Because out from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever. Amen."

So sure... No vacuum...

But just as sure... God is in control.

And understanding this...

Who do you choose to look at...

"...back-drop of cultural expectations..."

Or...

God's economy.

Originally Posted by aron

...But the dialog was largely lost, and so people like John Calvin and John Nelson Darby and Watchman Nee and Witness Lee who looked at scripture in a vacuum and said “this means that” and "this proves that" were free to form their own unique, subjective, and personal conclusions and impose these on their (usually captive) flocks.

Really?

So then... I wonder how you see Paul.

The person who had no problem participating in the murders of believers in Christ Jesus.

Who then... "WHAM"... Suddenly did an about face and was empowered by God to go speak things that even the disciples who had been walking with Jesus had a hard time with.

Perhaps you haven't yet gained the full experience of the reality the following scripture verses reveal...

Lamentations 3:22-23... "It is Jehovah's lovingkindness that we are not consumed, For His compassions do not fail;... They are new every morning; Great is Your faithfulness."

That's... Every morning God's mercy and grace towards us is new.

Why would you think to take up space in yourself holding onto old stuff.

Originally Posted by aron

...In the past 50 years there's arisen a field of inquiry called Second Temple Judaism(s), which studies the culture(s) in which the gospels arose. These scholars and students are still ignorant, as are we all, but they're making some small progress. See, for example, the series "Discoveries in the Judean Desert". But Lee would have none of that: he was deliberately and proudly ignorant. “I haven't learned anything from anyone in 45 years”, he told us. He was God’s Oracle, and didn’t need to humble himself and learn. Watchman Nee had already read all the good spiritual books, right? Nothing left to read - nothing (besides Nee) worth reading since 1925. What arrogant presumption!

Aron... If you think Lee and Nee were foolish for thinking there was nothing more for them to learn... Then just simply choose not to be like them.

Which is actually what scripture tells us... Look after yourself... But do so in Christ.

Which includes not becoming offended by your perceived failings of others.

In the light of the above... I'm going to jump over some of the stuff you said and get to the following...

Originally Posted by aron

...I'm not requesting a return to “Jewishness” in any shape or form; rather that we Gentiles...

See... Stop right there...

In your above speaking is a huge error.

Why can I say that?

Because scripture tells us this...

Galatians 3:27-28... "For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ... There cannot be Jew nor Greek, there cannot be slave nor free man, there cannot be male and female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus."

Are you in Christ, aron?

If so, then you can be neither Jew nor Gentile... Only Christ.

And if you don't see this... Then you are not seeing what Christ is doing.

Originally Posted by aron

...humble ourselves and begin to appreciate what was lost.

But this is not what scripture tells us... So again you are speaking in error.

Scripture tells us that what we need to be doing is only looking away unto Jesus...

Hebrews 12:2... "Looking away unto Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the ccross, despising the shame, and has sat down on the right hand of the throne of God."

And further... Scripture says nothing like what you've said below...

Originally Posted by aron

...Slowly the Lord will return our portion: if we seek we will find. But if we arrogantly presume to have laid hold (see, e.g., “high peak truths” . . .) our blindness remains. The 'church' we create will look a lot like what Ohio testified of. The Imaginarium of one fallen human being. The King-dumb of Lee.

Aron...

According to scripture...

What we should be seeking is in front of us... Not behind...

Philippians 3:13... "Brothers, I do not account of myself to have laid hold; but one thing I do: Forgetting the things which are behind and stretching forward to the things which are before,..."

Aron... In love... I'll say to you... Almost all that you said above is only error.