Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah
You are using a picture of this future reality and making it the black and white rule for a current church meeting. This is a major error.
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I interpret you saying that the heavenly reality (as described in Revelation) should not be used as a blueprint for the church today. If the church on earth is but a shadow of its future reality why should it not try to resemble that future reality?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah
1. The doctrine must be based on the black and white word, such as that in Matthew 16-18.
2. Allegories like the NJ in Revelation can be used to add depth and clarity to a doctrine but not to create it. There is a very direct connection between the Breastplate of Judgement in the OT and the Wall in the NT. This connection has been commented on by many Bible expositors including Witness Lee.
To say that the church must be "bound" by the fellowship of the apostles is based on the black and white word of the NT. I am not using the allegory to make the doctrine, merely to make it easier to visualize the doctrine.
But when you say you must have "12" to be a church you have pulled this number out of the absurdity of your "logical mind" and then justified it with this allegory. Your method of Bible exposition is completely flawed.
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I believe my method is sound. You have hinged your doctrine on a passage regarding "two or three" which is taken out of context (context being, resolving disputes in the church, not defining the size of a church).
To define the size of a church according to the Bible we should look to the church itself:
God chose to start the church and establish the foundation of doctrine on the word and witness of 12 people, not two or three. Many more than 12 in fact, but at least 12. The importance of 12 was also seen by the disciples filling the position of Judas Iscariot.
Just as the nation of Israel would not exist with less than 12 tribes, the church would not exist with less than 12 pillars (the apostles). In the context of the church the number 12 is more significant than the number 2 or 3.
Historically speaking, all major doctrine in the church has been decided by 12 people or more. This includes the matter of Gentiles vs Jews and extends until the time of the councils of Nicaea etc. So far you have been unable to point to any time in history when major doctrine was determined or defined by only two or three people and not a larger council or gathering.
Unfortunately you have no strong biblical or historical precedent for the importance of two or three, other than the singular verses you have pulled out of their context to arrive at a view of today's church which does not even match the future reality described in Revelation.