Quote:
Originally Posted by aron
But I do know one thing clearly: they organized, and Jesus still hasn't returned. Instead we have multiple, competing organizations (Babylon, anyone?) and no returned Messiah.
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1. I apologize for the "Babylon" remark. I didn't mean to insinuate that any christian group is Babylon. I was thinking specifically of the GLA, the Dong group, and the BBs now trading barbs, competing against each other for 'sheep', or the proper doctrinal interpretation. That was what I meant about "competing organizations". But I insinuated that all christian groupings are competing, which is patently untrue and unfair.
And if there is any "Babylonian" aspect of religious plurality equaling religious confusion, it is not mine to say. Lee never got this point, it seems: if you see a "Babylonian" splinter in the other's eye, it may well indicate a "Babylonian" beam in your own. So if there is any Babylonian aspect to contemporary christianity or not, I doubt I am the one qualified to make those assertions. My apologies.
2. I don't think we are casting aspersions on the motives of the apostles. Yes, the evident ambition is pre-resurrection; we can see no trace of it in the record later and thus must assume it was fully dealt with. And there is evidence on the positive side, as well -- Peter got fried in public by Paul and no civil war broke out. So all's well.
But, they may have inadvertently set up a structure in which the undealt-with ambitions of others may flourish and grow. Thus, in the Asian assemblies we have evidence of Satan's throne, Jezebel is doing business, false apostles are claiming chunks of the flock, Nicolaitans are conquering the people, and so forth. Now, this all might have happened, sans organization, and might have been worse. Organization doesn't necessarily equal "Jezebel". But, look at the history of the decline of the Israelites ("We want a king like the Gentiles have") and there are maybe uncomfortable parallels.
At one point Jesus said, "Moses allowed this arrangement (divorce), as a concession to your fallen nature. But from the beginning it was not so." Maybe Jesus wanted to go more "back to the beginning" than the saints realized, in the first century church.
3. I would modify my earlier post somewhat, upon reflection.
Q: I am newly saved, brimming with ambition to serve God and be rewarded greatly upon the Master's triumphant return. What should I do?
A: Well, there's several things. First, pray unceasingly, and read the Bible until you know it better than your own birthdate and zip code.
Second, preach the gospel to those languishing in darkness.
Third, shepherd the believers God puts you with, by encouraging them, consoling them, counseling them if they ask, and most of all by being a good example. Don't just declare the kingdom to them: live the kingdom in front of them. If you are really ambitious, and want to compete with others to sit closer to Jesus at the Wedding Feast, then follow Paul's dictum closely, and "compete with others in showing honor to one another."
Lastly, go back to step one and do it again.
4. I am not "anti-organization". But it is my observation that some spiritual corollary of Newton's law of gravitation may be in effect here. Newton said that gravitational force is directly proportional to the product of the two masses and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between the point masses. F equals G*M1*M2 divided by R^2.
Well, at some point, looking at the sweep of christian history, with its revivals and ebbs, I realized that maybe the Holy Spirit's gravitational pull is directly proportional to the product of our prayer and Bible reading, and inversely proportional to the square of our organizational efforts.
I haven't got it quite down into a mathematical formula, but it's something like that, anyway!
