Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeakersCorner
Igzy,
I dunno about that "first" business. I see where you're pulling the "first" from ... the previous verse. The verses: "13For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner."
But that clearly has nothing to do with the deception. Adam was not deceived according to this verse.
As for him being wimpy and passive in the end, I agree. But this is after he fulfills his role as a type of Christ in coming down to his bride's level. After he eats he becomes just the opposite of a type of Christ: everything he does is wrong: he hides from God, he tries to make clothing out of fig leaves, he quickly passes the buck on his guilt.
To me, Adam as a Christ type in choosing to go down with Eve is a little like Jonah as a Christ type in choosing to go into the sea. Though their actions have a serious negative aspect to them, they do reveal something deep about Christ.
SC
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Well, I think you have to take that verse in 1 Tim in the context of the whole Bible. First, I think it's talking about Adam's action in relation to Eve, not in an absolute sense. Second, how could Adam have sinned if he wasn't deceived? At some level he had to have been deceived in order to sin. I don't see how anyone could sin without being deceived.
As to the "passive Adam" I don't think you understood my point. There is a popular teaching going around meant to address the problem of husbands/fathers who are not involved enough in their families. Adam is put forth as an example of this because he (they say) was there with Eve all during her discourse with Satan but remained silent and never stepped up to protect her, he just went along with it. I don't buy that based on what 1 Tim says. I believe he was eventually passive, but not that he was there during the discourse.
Since 1 Timothy says Adam was not deceived, I have to combine that with the fact that he manifestly eventually was deceived. And since the verse is talking about him in relation to Eve, I have to conclude it means the deception started with her and spread to him, because I can't see how anyone could sin without being deceived at some level.
So, though I think your interpretation is noble in a way and I understand what you are getting at, I don't agree with it. I don't think grace can come by sinning. However, I applaud your creative thinking. Adam may have "sacrificed" for his wife by eating the fruit, but it was misplaced sacrifice, I have to believe.