[Koinonia]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Ok then which group or groups are the local visible expression of the universal church? 3 choices as I see it are - all (all and any gathering of believers is valid, no matter what they teach or do), some (e.g. any group in particular), none (i.e. doesn't exist today, will exist again at the Lord's return, I believe Spurgeon believed in this).

I would say that believers constitute the "local visible expression of the universal church." I believe that seeking to be such as a group separate (or smaller than) all other believers is misguided and presumptuous.

Agree. The universal church includes all believers. What about the local?

The local church includes all believers in that place. Even you claim to believe this.

So whether or not a group is a true local church (true expression of the universal church) depends on their condition?

I think it is the other way around. The churches mentioned in Revelation had problems, but were still referred to as churches in the city.

There were not special groups in Revelation that constituted the "church in the city" because they had the right name (as opposed to anyone else without the right name). So, it is wrong to equate the situation of Revelation to the situation of today.

Besides, you have other requirements for being "the church in the city" in addition to having the right name. The whole discussion is a distraction from your actual practice. In your actual practice, what you consider the local churches are a network of people and congregations that follow Witness Lee. I do not believe you would consider a group outside of your network a "genuine local church" even if it did have the right name.