[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

That's right, just like Christians left the pure word of God and fell into Catholicism and thanks to the vision which Luther ministered people could be free from that and Moses brought the people out of Egypt, and Paul out of Judaism. Were any of these men perfect? Of course not. But they had a vision from God (it would seem).

I've never thought of there being a dispute between God and wayward believers in Babylon. I think of Babylon as a place which holds God's people in bondage and God sent WN and WL to help rescue and bring out. The call is to come out so as not to share in Babylon's plagues .The plagues are not meant for God's people but for the enemy.

Seriously?

We lie down in our shame, and our confusion covereth us: for we have sinned against the Lord our God, we and our fathers, from our youth even unto this day, and have not obeyed the voice of the Lord our God. (Jeremiah 3:25)

No dispute?

And I myself will fight against you with an outstretched hand and with a strong arm, even in anger, and in fury, and in great wrath. Jeremiah 21:5

Do I really need to go on?

4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.

5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Sounds like a dispute.

14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.

15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate.

16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

Yep, that is a dispute.

20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

Originally Posted by Evangelical

So all that really matters is not the doctrine about whether this person or that person is the MOTA, but did God give them such a vision? Catholics would say no to Luther just as Judaizers would say no to Paul. Many it seems say no to Nee or Lee and the consequence of that is temporal rather than eternal.

This is Drake's point -- if you accept that the "Ground of the Church" is "the vision of the age" then you can also accept that WL is the MOTA, if you don't accept the first premise then obviously you won't accept the second.

Originally Posted by Evangelical

What is going to rescue someone out of Babylon is not believing or not believing that WL was MOTA but whether or not they will follow the vision and actually leave Babylon for themselves. As Drake and I said before (in another thread possibly), WL and WN's ministry is appreciated by many around the world even the likes of Joyce Meyer. It's just a shame if they only appreciate it while staying in Babylon themselves.

Which is why I left the LRC, though I would compare it to Sardis and Laodicea.