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Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah
Have you actually visited them? In the last 12 months I have visited 6. I attended a bible study with a group down the street from me while continuing to meet where I have been for the last 20 years. In addition while visiting relatives in St. Louis and Vermont and attending funerals and memorial services I have attended another 4. These have ranged from new life, non denominational, mega church, as well as some very fundamental and traditional denominations. I had no difficulty being one with everyone in every meeting. Remember that included me sharing quite a bit in the Bible studies.
That is what made me one with everyone. I had been redeemed by the Lord and I shared the Bible.
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Yes but you are talking about your personal feeling or experience when you visit different churches occasionally. You are experiencing the spiritual reality of oneness (the blood, the Spirit) etc, but I would guess that not everyone is doing what you are doing, particularly not the church pastors/priests. Can you imagine what the pastor./priest would think if everyone in their church visited other churches every Sunday? Suppose that every Christian did not have a "home church" and every Sunday attended a different church. Not only would the pastors complain it would question the need for their very existence. I think most church folk and leaders don't like it when people come and go like the wind. This is for a practical reason , and it matters less that everyone is "blood related".
So I am not talking about visiting churches and blending in or feeling one when we visit churches. I am talking about the very existence of these separate churches. All believers have the blood of Christ, yet different churches exist (when in many cases they don't have to) - why? The blood, as powerful as it is for salvation, has not stopped the situation of denominationalism. Just like being blood related to a person doesn't guarantee them coming to your thanksgiving - you better be sure you got the best turkey around for them to choose your place.
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Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah
That is what made me one with everyone. I had been redeemed by the Lord and I shared the Bible. I travel 4 hours for thanksgiving, and have done every year. We generally have at least 30 or more at dinner. We are spread all over the entire North East. I get it that this kind of meeting is "practical". But how is it anymore practical than meeting in cyberspace? Or on the phone?
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I think the personal experience of everyone would be similar, but think of this - if everyone was doing what you were doing, going to different churches to experience oneness, how can you accomplish anything meaningful in a corporate way? How can you grow together? Oneness is more than just feeling at one with other believers - every genuine believer should feel that. Even visitors to the local churches can feel one with us and enjoy the Lord. But there is the growth aspect as well - how can we grow together?
Consider the reason why Watchman Nee put forward the ground of locality to satisfy the needs of new converts who did not want to join a particular 'flavor' of Christianity and who could not simply travel around visiting different churches each Sunday with no real place to call home and grow?
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Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah
The boundaries of NYC are not convenient for practical oneness. I can tell you that I very rarely ever go to the Bronx or Staten Island. Just because they are within the boundaries of the city doesn't make them convenient. In contrast when I lived in Odessa Tx we met jointly with saints from Midland Tx. It only takes 20 minutes to drive from Midland to Odessa. By contrast it would take me an hour to go into the Bronx or Staten Island. It would also cost $15 in tolls and parking would be another big cost. This simple reference to real life experience demonstrates that WL's "ground of the church" is not the practical solution you sell it as.
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I understand and practically there is no issue travelling and visiting other churches for convenience. I have never encountered anyone telling me to "stay in my locality" when I visit a church nor are the boundaries so rigid. Blending is encouraged and no one ever asked "why are you here".
But the practical oneness I'm talking about is not actually for convenience, it's for unity/oneness. It's the ability for all different kinds of Christians to come together for Sunday meeting in a simple way, without much dispute.
Consider that when two parties have a dispute, they usually mediate on a third, neutral ground. I think of Catholicism and Protestantism having a long running dispute, and attempts to build bridges (ecumenism) can only go so far. Only if both meet on a third neutral ground can there be genuine unity. I see this neutral ground as the locality. Both Catholic and Protestant have the blood of Christ, yet this is not enough to stop the long running disputes. A third and practical solution is needed.
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Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah
But you asked me to look at denominations, so let me ask you -- how about a divorced couple. Why did they divorce? Would "practical oneness" -- putting them into the same house really be a "practical solution"? On the other hand how about the cross. If both people willingly embrace the cross and the way of the cross would that be the practical solution? The Judaizers taught that circumcision was the answer because they didn't want to embrace the cross of Christ. Now you are pushing this modern day Judaizer cult, the answer is the boundary of the city because you also don't want to embrace the cross. The practice is total hypocrisy:
1. The name is critical, can't have a name except for "The church in ..." unless this isn't convenient. The church in NY can't incorporate as the church in NY, therefore they incorporate as "The Christian fellowship center" and in this case the name is not important.
2. The boundary of the city is "practical oneness" unless that is not convenient. I used to come to the church in NY from a different city than NYC because I didn't live in NYC. No problem. In New Hampshire I lived in Canaan and commuted to Hanover to meet -- no biggie. In Odessa we met with saints from Midland -- no problem. In Taipei there were 22 meeting halls in Taipei, no problem. In some cities now there are two separate "Church in _____" because they had a split. Once again, sanctioned by LSM. Etc., etc., etc. You pretend that you are being faithful to the Lord's command but are more than willing to compromise any and every way.
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According to the Bible every Christian is in the "same house" whether they like it or not, because of the "same blood". The local churches are a reflection of that fact, in contrast to the denominations who are a reflection of past disputes, wars, and in personal preferences.
Something worked for the early church for achieving and maintaining practical unity for a time, and this was either brought about by a top down hierarchical structure like in Orthodoxy and Catholicism, or it was the ground of locality. There's really few other choices if we are talking about practical oneness.
Of course, anyone can say that they are "one with everyone" despite attending different churches each Sunday of which there are 100 to choose from within a 5 mile radius! Spiritually it's true but practically it's hard for them to grow with others and accomplish anything.
Similarly anyone can meet "over the internet" and claim to be one with the other person on the line but face to face it's a different story.