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Originally Posted by Evangelical
ZNP I think you are half right because you are correct if speaking about the spiritual side of things but your definition is impractical in the real world. It is true that we are one because of the blood of Christ, and we can apply the blood of Christ to keep the oneness. Yet I believe practically we need something tangible in order to be practically one. Look around you - Christians are not meeting together just because they all have the blood of Christ. Every believer has the Father, the Spirit, has the blood, but look around you - where is the oneness?
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OK, we have been hammering you on the MOTA, Ministry of the Age and Vision of the Age. Since the supposed goal of this vision is the oneness let's look at that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evangelical
If the ground of the church is the blood of Christ, and this ground of the church would keep the oneness - then how do you explain so many denominations? Unless they live in a hole, anyone can see that the blood of Christ which all believers have, has not kept them one in a practical sense.
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Have you actually visited them? In the last 12 months I have visited 6. I attended a bible study with a group down the street from me while continuing to meet where I have been for the last 20 years. In addition while visiting relatives in St. Louis and Vermont and attending funerals and memorial services I have attended another 4. These have ranged from new life, non denominational, mega church, as well as some very fundamental and traditional denominations. I had no difficulty being one with everyone in every meeting. Remember that included me sharing quite a bit in the Bible studies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evangelical
In practical experience believers have found that something else keeps us one. Each denomination has their own "something else", but we prefer that "something else" to be what the bible reveals it should be (the locality), rather than a Confession, Creed, speaking in tongues, methods of baptism, or allegiance to a centuries old tradition and organized institutions.
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That is what made me one with everyone. I had been redeemed by the Lord and I shared the Bible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evangelical
Here is a simple analogy - in a family of 10, they all share the same blood and DNA. Now in one sense they are one because they are a family. But practically, trying to get them together for Thanksgiving is incredibly hard because some don't like celebrating Thanksgiving, others hate turkey, others don't want to travel too far. As this simply analogy shows, just having the same blood is not enough for practical oneness.
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I travel 4 hours for thanksgiving, and have done every year. We generally have at least 30 or more at dinner. We are spread all over the entire North East. I get it that this kind of meeting is "practical". But how is it anymore practical than meeting in cyberspace? Or on the phone?
The boundaries of NYC are not convenient for practical oneness. I can tell you that I very rarely ever go to the Bronx or Staten Island. Just because they are within the boundaries of the city doesn't make them convenient. In contrast when I lived in Odessa Tx we met jointly with saints from Midland Tx. It only takes 20 minutes to drive from Midland to Odessa. By contrast it would take me an hour to go into the Bronx or Staten Island. It would also cost $15 in tolls and parking would be another big cost. This simple reference to real life experience demonstrates that WL's "ground of the church" is not the practical solution you sell it as.
But you asked me to look at denominations, so let me ask you -- how about a divorced couple. Why did they divorce? Would "practical oneness" -- putting them into the same house really be a "practical solution"? On the other hand how about the cross. If both people willingly embrace the cross and the way of the cross would that be the practical solution? The Judaizers taught that circumcision was the answer because they didn't want to embrace the cross of Christ. Now you are pushing this modern day Judaizer cult, the answer is the boundary of the city because you also don't want to embrace the cross. The practice is total hypocrisy:
1. The name is critical, can't have a name except for "The church in ..." unless this isn't convenient. The church in NY can't incorporate as the church in NY, therefore they incorporate as "The Christian fellowship center" and in this case the name is not important.
2. The boundary of the city is "practical oneness" unless that is not convenient. I used to come to the church in NY from a different city than NYC because I didn't live in NYC. No problem. In New Hampshire I lived in Canaan and commuted to Hanover to meet -- no biggie. In Odessa we met with saints from Midland -- no problem. In Taipei there were 22 meeting halls in Taipei, no problem. In some cities now there are two separate "Church in _____" because they had a split. Once again, sanctioned by LSM. Etc., etc., etc. You pretend that you are being faithful to the Lord's command but are more than willing to compromise any and every way.