Quote:
Originally Posted by Drake
Koinonia,
You can address my points or you can ignore my points and stick to the opposers standard talking points. Which will it be?
If you want a dialogue then address the points of my argument starting with #166. Am very familiar with Brother Kerry’s response to Tomes’ attempt to establish many ministers of the age.
Thanks
Drake
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Great, so let's look at Kerry's points.
I pretty much agree with everything he says about vision, vision of the age, and to a lesser degree to ministry of the age, so I will ignore all of that.
Instead I want to focus on what he says about "Minister of the Age".
According to Kerry this is the definition:
“the co-workers defined the term as applying to the unique person through whom the vision of the age is released and who takes the lead in carrying out the ministry of the age”
I have an issue with this concept of "unique person". For example the apostle Paul would certainly be considered one of these "unique persons". Yet he makes it very clear in his epistles that he is a member of the Body, that the Body has many members, that every member has different functions and it seems to fly in the face of many other spots in the NT where Peter and Paul rebuked anyone who tried to distinguish them from any other believer. According to Peter we all have "like precious faith". I find this concept of singling out one person as the "unique" person who "takes the lead" as being contrary to the NT vision. Instead, the only unique person I would identify as the one "taking the lead" is Jesus. As you yourself said calling WL the "head" was jarring and disturbing. So then who is he to say he is taking the lead? At best he is following the Lord's lead and we are only following him because he is following the Lord. At worst he is leading us astray.
The Minister of the Age
The particular man through whom the vision of the age is released is "the minister of the age." As Brother Nee pointed out, Martin Luther and John Nelson Darby were ministers of their respective ages. Furthermore, the two ministries between which Jonathan stood were with particular ministers-Saul and David. Brother Lee spoke of the vision of the age as the blueprint and of the person through whom the vision of the age was opened up as the master builder, strongly pointing out that there is only one such blueprint and one such master builder in every age. Brother Lee then applied these two matters to correct the practice of some in the Lord's recovery to preach and publish their own messages.
What bothers me and what no one has explained is why this "particular man" is not Jesus? This is what Peter and Paul both said when someone tried to call them the "particular man". Jesus gave us the blueprint. He is the one through whom the vision was released.
Then the inferences from this teaching are truly catastrophic.
1. If you accept the teaching then you accept that there is one man, in any age, that is "taking the lead" and to not follow his lead is rebellion. What about the Lord's leading? According to this teaching you can't follow the Lord's lead if it is not in agreement with following the lead of the minister of the age. So then say good bye to following the Lord's lead.
2. If you accept this teaching then there is one key concept or truth the Lord is releasing in any age. If the Lord speaks something else to you and not to the Minister of the Age then it is "off the central lane" and merely a distraction. Therefore say good bye to the Lord's speaking.
So then let's return to the definition that Kerry gives:
“the co-workers defined the term as applying to the unique person through whom the vision of the age is released and who takes the lead in carrying out the ministry of the age”
The ministry of this age is carried out by the Lord's grace, by the Spirit indwelling us and by the Body being in oneness with the head. This definition short circuits all of this to say that one unique person (not Jesus) is taking the lead to carry out the ministry. That is a damnable heresy. That denies that it is Jesus who is taking the lead to carry out His ministry.