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John · 09-05-2017, 01:30 PM

I just discovered that I didn’t post this one yesterday. It was supposed to be before “More Information and a Testimonial (#80), because that post ended with a reference to a Greek word that I mention in this post. Please excuse my mistake, and here is the post:

I would like for readers to think about the possibility that there is male gender bias in the KJV translation, and that this bias has greatly affected how we view our Christian roles and behaviors in the 21st century.

Male gender bias for dummies

Although an all-male translation committee is probably proof enough for non-Christians of male gender bias in the KJV translation, some Christians have disputed that it exists, some insisting that it is not in the KJV. My position is that male gender bias is now at work among today’s Christians (male and female) at least in part due to the aforementioned impact of the KJV and the men who translated it. In addition, this bias goes largely unnoticed and is accepted as “gospel.”

By the way, I use the words “for dummies” simply to let readers know that this is a very simple presentation, not that those of us who are males are dummies. Male gender bias in the KJV is not the main thesis of A Woman of Chayil anyway. Also, male gender bias does not just refer to the fact that the KJV committee was made up of all men. The point being made in this post is that male gender bias is in the translation, not in the sexual makeup of the committee. Females have also bought in to the male gender bias that is in the KJV, as Jane’s book brings forward.

It’s Greek to us—or is it?

I will provide in this post only one evidence of the bias. So, for this installment of male gender bias for dummies in the KJV, here goes:

Oikodespotēs (pronounced oi-ko-de-spo'-tās) is a Greek compound noun.

It is made up of two Greek words: oikos and despotes.

Oikos means house, as well as household or family.

Despotes means master or lord. This is the same Greek word from which we get our English word, “despot,” which means a ruler who has absolute or unlimited power over others. This was the biblical word used in the slave/master relationship.

Man (woman?) off the street interview

If we take a non-Christian, non-Greek speaker off the street, give him or her the previous data about oikodespotēs, and ask that person to give us an English definition of it, what would we expect? Most would probably say something like “master of the house,” and they would be right. Score one for common sense. And, as we would expect, that is the way that the word is translated in the KJV (Matt. 10:25, and Luke 13:25 and 14:21).

If we ask the same person to give us an English meaning for a verb form of this noun (assuming that the person off the street had the capability), what would we expect? We would expect, I think, to get something like “master the house” or “be lord over the household.” Some might even come up with something like “rule the household” or “rule the family.”

Well, here is the Greek verb, and it occurs once in the New Testament:

Oikodespoteō (pronounced oy-kod-es-pot-eh'- ō)

How is it rendered in the KJV? Is it translated something like our non-Christian, non-Greek, off-the-street helper would probably have suggested? Would you be surprised in any way to see this wording presented: “guide the house”? Our person off the street probably would be, but this is exactly what the KJV translators used.

Christians familiar with Bible translations may recognize this kind of phraseology. So, where does it occur, and what is the context? Here it is:

I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully. (1 Tim. 5:14, KJV)

Master of the house

Is this an example of male gender bias? I think that the non-Christian off the street would say that it is, but my Christian brothers and sisters, influenced by traditional Christianity, may not want to admit it, even to themselves. Why? I would say that it is because it does some amount of damage to the perspective that most Christians (and even non-Christians) in our culture have been taught: the man is to be the head of the house or master of his house. In my opinion, the translators, having this bias (in addition to the fact that they were working for the king of England), changed the logical word choice to one that suited their idea of the proper role of wives.

If you’re a Christian and you do accept that a more logical translation would contain some form of “master” and “house,” what would your acceptance do to your assumptions? For one example, who is supposed to be the final authority in the house, the husband or the wife? If I plucked you off the street (a Christian) and asked you this question (in other words, you weren’t reading this thread on this forum), you would likely have reflexively answered, the husband. If so, you would have been wrong according to the literal, logical reading of Paul to Timothy in this verse, taking into consideration the meaning of the compound noun as presented. In other words, it goes against everything in our culture to have a kind of queen-of-the-castle interpretation. How could a translator, with a traditional background, render the meaning of the verb according to its correspondence with the noun that has the same linguistic roots when doing so would stand tradition on its head?

Barefoot and pregnant?

If you’re a man and your view has been that women-folk are just supposed to “guide the house” by only doing things like cleaning house, washing clothes, buying groceries, and cooking for the family, maybe you need to consider expanded possibilities for them. If you’re a woman who has had the same view, maybe you need to step up to the plate (and not the dinner plate at the sink) and become the “master” of the house that Paul indicated you should be.

I realize that many Christian men would want to bring in other passages from the Bible to try to re-establish absolute male authority in the home, but did Paul really think that way? Was he hoping that women would do more than simply “guide the house,” whatever that means? This is not the only instance of this kind of thing in the KJV, as you can find out by reading Jane Anderson’s A Woman of Chayil or Katharine Bushnell’s God’s Word to Women.

Just think about it, my Christian brothers: Maybe Christian women are not to be “masters” in the home (I say “maybe” because it’s such a tough pill to swallow), but does that mean that they are to be subjugated because of other verses? I knew a Christian wife (who was in the Local Church, by the way) who could basically do nothing without her husband’s direct approval. And, when I say “basically nothing,” I mean that she had to get permission to drive the car, buy groceries, or almost anything else. He was a tyrant. It was the exact opposite of the verse (1 Tim. 5:14). In his mind, she was to be his slave, to do all that he asked and nothing that he didn’t.

Katharine Bushnell was a scholar

In conclusion, I am not a Greek scholar and just use the helps that are available on the Internet. Also, I have worked with the books by Jane Anderson and Katharine Bushnell. In addition to Jane’s work being belittled on this forum, Katharine and her work have been, too. So, to tell readers just a little bit about Katharine Bushnell according to what I have gleaned, she was actually a medical doctor, quite a feat for a woman in the 1800s. She was considered a brilliant scholar and was proficient in both Hebrew and Greek. As for her work on her book, she moved to London to access the source material in the library there, where she spent a number of years working on it. And, yes, her work was reviewed by some male scholars of her day.

Common sense

Even though none of us are scholars in Hebrew or Greek, as far as I know, shouldn’t the translation of this one verb, oikodespoteō, be that which makes the most sense, based on the meaning of the compound noun with which it is connected, without bringing in our Christian or cultural gender bias? Be honest, now, but be careful how you answer. It could affect the rest of your life dramatically.

I would not expect that this one post about one Greek word and its translation would totally convince anyone that this is a big problem in the KJV. I would expect, however, that it would pique your interest and cause you to seriously consider the possibility and the possible ramifications on how you are living your Christian life.

Also, one more thing: Some of the crazy postings have given the impression that Jane Anderson and Katharine Bushnell have an agenda against males and are trying to prove that the KJV translators knowingly and purposefully changed their translation to keep women in their place, but I don’t think that either book has engaged in this type of male bashing, although, after you read them, you can’t help but wonder if the KJV committee didn’t make at least some translations with motive. By the way, because it has been sensationally suggested that the whole Bible is up for this kind of investigation, let me state that Katharine and Jane are only investigating translation problems in certain verses that have to do specifically with women.

09-05-2017, 01:30 PM	#104
John Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 62	Male Gender Bias for Dummies #1 I just discovered that I didn’t post this one yesterday. It was supposed to be before “More Information and a Testimonial (#80), because that post ended with a reference to a Greek word that I mention in this post. Please excuse my mistake, and here is the post: I would like for readers to think about the possibility that there is male gender bias in the KJV translation, and that this bias has greatly affected how we view our Christian roles and behaviors in the 21st century. Male gender bias for dummies Although an all-male translation committee is probably proof enough for non-Christians of male gender bias in the KJV translation, some Christians have disputed that it exists, some insisting that it is not in the KJV. My position is that male gender bias is now at work among today’s Christians (male and female) at least in part due to the aforementioned impact of the KJV and the men who translated it. In addition, this bias goes largely unnoticed and is accepted as “gospel.” By the way, I use the words “for dummies” simply to let readers know that this is a very simple presentation, not that those of us who are males are dummies. Male gender bias in the KJV is not the main thesis of A Woman of Chayil anyway. Also, male gender bias does not just refer to the fact that the KJV committee was made up of all men. The point being made in this post is that male gender bias is in the translation, not in the sexual makeup of the committee. Females have also bought in to the male gender bias that is in the KJV, as Jane’s book brings forward. It’s Greek to us—or is it? I will provide in this post only one evidence of the bias. So, for this installment of male gender bias for dummies in the KJV, here goes: Oikodespotēs (pronounced oi-ko-de-spo'-tās) is a Greek compound noun. It is made up of two Greek words: oikos and despotes. Oikos means house, as well as household or family. Despotes means master or lord. This is the same Greek word from which we get our English word, “despot,” which means a ruler who has absolute or unlimited power over others. This was the biblical word used in the slave/master relationship. Man (woman?) off the street interview If we take a non-Christian, non-Greek speaker off the street, give him or her the previous data about oikodespotēs, and ask that person to give us an English definition of it, what would we expect? Most would probably say something like “master of the house,” and they would be right. Score one for common sense. And, as we would expect, that is the way that the word is translated in the KJV (Matt. 10:25, and Luke 13:25 and 14:21). If we ask the same person to give us an English meaning for a verb form of this noun (assuming that the person off the street had the capability), what would we expect? We would expect, I think, to get something like “master the house” or “be lord over the household.” Some might even come up with something like “rule the household” or “rule the family.” Well, here is the Greek verb, and it occurs once in the New Testament: Oikodespoteō (pronounced oy-kod-es-pot-eh'- ō) How is it rendered in the KJV? Is it translated something like our non-Christian, non-Greek, off-the-street helper would probably have suggested? Would you be surprised in any way to see this wording presented: “guide the house”? Our person off the street probably would be, but this is exactly what the KJV translators used. Christians familiar with Bible translations may recognize this kind of phraseology. So, where does it occur, and what is the context? Here it is: I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully. (1 Tim. 5:14, KJV) Master of the house Is this an example of male gender bias? I think that the non-Christian off the street would say that it is, but my Christian brothers and sisters, influenced by traditional Christianity, may not want to admit it, even to themselves. Why? I would say that it is because it does some amount of damage to the perspective that most Christians (and even non-Christians) in our culture have been taught: the man is to be the head of the house or master of his house. In my opinion, the translators, having this bias (in addition to the fact that they were working for the king of England), changed the logical word choice to one that suited their idea of the proper role of wives. If you’re a Christian and you do accept that a more logical translation would contain some form of “master” and “house,” what would your acceptance do to your assumptions? For one example, who is supposed to be the final authority in the house, the husband or the wife? If I plucked you off the street (a Christian) and asked you this question (in other words, you weren’t reading this thread on this forum), you would likely have reflexively answered, the husband. If so, you would have been wrong according to the literal, logical reading of Paul to Timothy in this verse, taking into consideration the meaning of the compound noun as presented. In other words, it goes against everything in our culture to have a kind of queen-of-the-castle interpretation. How could a translator, with a traditional background, render the meaning of the verb according to its correspondence with the noun that has the same linguistic roots when doing so would stand tradition on its head? Barefoot and pregnant? If you’re a man and your view has been that women-folk are just supposed to “guide the house” by only doing things like cleaning house, washing clothes, buying groceries, and cooking for the family, maybe you need to consider expanded possibilities for them. If you’re a woman who has had the same view, maybe you need to step up to the plate (and not the dinner plate at the sink) and become the “master” of the house that Paul indicated you should be. I realize that many Christian men would want to bring in other passages from the Bible to try to re-establish absolute male authority in the home, but did Paul really think that way? Was he hoping that women would do more than simply “guide the house,” whatever that means? This is not the only instance of this kind of thing in the KJV, as you can find out by reading Jane Anderson’s A Woman of Chayil or Katharine Bushnell’s God’s Word to Women. Just think about it, my Christian brothers: Maybe Christian women are not to be “masters” in the home (I say “maybe” because it’s such a tough pill to swallow), but does that mean that they are to be subjugated because of other verses? I knew a Christian wife (who was in the Local Church, by the way) who could basically do nothing without her husband’s direct approval. And, when I say “basically nothing,” I mean that she had to get permission to drive the car, buy groceries, or almost anything else. He was a tyrant. It was the exact opposite of the verse (1 Tim. 5:14). In his mind, she was to be his slave, to do all that he asked and nothing that he didn’t. Katharine Bushnell was a scholar In conclusion, I am not a Greek scholar and just use the helps that are available on the Internet. Also, I have worked with the books by Jane Anderson and Katharine Bushnell. In addition to Jane’s work being belittled on this forum, Katharine and her work have been, too. So, to tell readers just a little bit about Katharine Bushnell according to what I have gleaned, she was actually a medical doctor, quite a feat for a woman in the 1800s. She was considered a brilliant scholar and was proficient in both Hebrew and Greek. As for her work on her book, she moved to London to access the source material in the library there, where she spent a number of years working on it. And, yes, her work was reviewed by some male scholars of her day. Common sense Even though none of us are scholars in Hebrew or Greek, as far as I know, shouldn’t the translation of this one verb, oikodespoteō, be that which makes the most sense, based on the meaning of the compound noun with which it is connected, without bringing in our Christian or cultural gender bias? Be honest, now, but be careful how you answer. It could affect the rest of your life dramatically. I would not expect that this one post about one Greek word and its translation would totally convince anyone that this is a big problem in the KJV. I would expect, however, that it would pique your interest and cause you to seriously consider the possibility and the possible ramifications on how you are living your Christian life. Also, one more thing: Some of the crazy postings have given the impression that Jane Anderson and Katharine Bushnell have an agenda against males and are trying to prove that the KJV translators knowingly and purposefully changed their translation to keep women in their place, but I don’t think that either book has engaged in this type of male bashing, although, after you read them, you can’t help but wonder if the KJV committee didn’t make at least some translations with motive. By the way, because it has been sensationally suggested that the whole Bible is up for this kind of investigation, let me state that Katharine and Jane are only investigating translation problems in certain verses that have to do specifically with women.