[countmeworthy]

Originally Posted by Boxjobox

Countmeworthy, I apologize if I offended you. I spend quite a bit of my time trying to separate what was LSM from what was the church in my thinking. When I read the epistles, I see a lot of things that were practiced in San Diego in the mid to late 70's that match the scripture- things

I think you mistook my passion for offense. I was not offended in the least. On the contrary. I am quite moved by the love you still have for the church in San Diego. I have been a lone voice here because my experience in San Diego LC was by and large a positive one. Growth in the Lord was emphasized and that is what I wanted more than anything else. I did not want 'power', 'recognition' or be a 'good sister'. I wanted to grow in Christ..to experience Him in my daily living.

Most people here were in the ELSIE a much longer time than I was and their experience was not good. While I did some 'churching' and visited other localities. The meetings were similar but it was not 'San Diego'. Perhaps it is because I did not live there???

Anyway The horror stories that have been told have pained me. I'm sure John was aware of the Daystar fiasco but he was not involved and it was never mentioned to us. I left long before the Phillip Lee transgressions. At most, San Diego was somewhat affected by the Max/Berkeley fiasco. I believe that was when John slowly began to kow tow to Lee. Although there was a lot of disrespect to the LORD and the saints at that Berkeley circus.

I don't see in other "church" environments around here. Most are so pastor led and pastor driven, so clergy laity, that it is a pain to even consider jumping into one of them as my Christian church experience.

I have been quite surprised at the number of people here who were ELSIE diehards participating in the clergy laity system. I understand the ELSIE burnout and disappointment, the pain, the betrayals etc. I know they hate the 'poor Christianity' mantra. I do too! So if they are finding solace and fellowship in the clergy laity system, good for them. I tried to fit in but after 5-7 yrs of trying to fit in a ;charismatic 'church', I could no longer take it. I did learn a lot that I never learned in the ELSIE though.

So every 'church' experience from being raised as a Catholic to the LC to the Christianity experience has been a stepping stone in drawing me closer to the LORD.

I see some errors and missteps that were normal human issues that took place in the early church in SD experience. Some leading ones and some wannabes that maybe said or did things I would question. Those are things that can be corrected and brought to light through the word, fellowship, experience, etc.

yep.. yep..sometimes I think I would like to try it out again.. just to see what would happen. But you can't put new wineskins in old wine skins. AND I AM A WOMAN! And not a Chinese one either!! And SINGLE... I GOT NO CHANCE TO BE HEARD. Doesn't bother me.

Now if they are starving and willing to eat fresh manna, maybe something miraculous would happen. God however is not leading me there..and I am not going to go where the Holy Spirit is not leading me!!!!

Obviously the influence of LSM driven by WL's heavy hand, broke the conscience of the elders. John Smith even showed us a video of one of the recorded elders meetings, if I recall correctly-it was ugly. To stay "spiritual", you had to be right with WL, and to be right with WL, you had to submit to his ministery, and to submit to his ministery, you had to fully give over locality to LSM. We know what this resulted in- that New Way was a total scam.

When John gave his last message, you could tell that it had been a real long struggle to finally say I'm not taking it anymore.

I clearly recall when his messages began to change. It was early 1978 when he started declaring Lee was PAUL. John went on and on. I literally got sick to my stomach. I did not want to read anything Paul wrote and did not for a very long time.

I think he was pressured to change the format of his messages.

Because John was leaving, Les would be the leading one, and I view him as the one who really sold out the saints for LSM. And by that time, he did not even live in the city of San Diego anymore!

YES! ABSOLUTELY! Les, God bless him, always was very strict.. had a controlling personality. It is no surprise he remained in the LSM. I don't think Carolyn tows the line as much as he does but they are truly a couple. Their kids however are not part of the LSM at all. At least they were not in 2005.

I was in the LC for 4 months before anyone went into depth about Lee. I had heard of him but we were living the church life as best we could as the early church in Acts did and JESUS was our KING... not Lee.

When I say I long for the church in San Diego to meet again, I mean the saints minus WL ministery/LSM, coming together to break bread, fellowship, sing, pray, speak, care, under the meeting as the church n San Diego, open and caring for all the saints in the city, where the gospel is preached, the scripture is shared, and the members are free to exercise their priestly ministery as our Great High Priest leads.

That's what I long for to regardless of where we live. Now that I have 'matured', I really try to practice what I was taught. I encourage the saints, (outside ELSIE) I try to give hope to the lost and as the Holy Spirit leads, I point them to Jesus.

I think God would have such an opportunity to shine in and out of such a situation. It would be a blessing to the saints, to other Christians, to those in need of hearing the gospel, to the city, and to God!

indeed. I often tell my Christian friends how we met in San Diego. Many have responded positively because they have never experienced that. I tell them it's not longer like that. Since I can't/we can't live in the past, I move forward and follow the LAMB of God and His Holy Spirit.

So when I read the history statement of those currently calling themselves the church in SD and know that it is a false narrative of who they really are and and how they really meet- which is the LSM church. It saddens me, and I hope for a way the true fellowship of the church could return.

I'm sure the Lord is going to reward you for the Love you have for the LC saints especially in San Diego. Were you in another locality before your tenure in San Diego?

Phew- glad I got that off my chest!

me too! I am also so happy there is another fellow ex LCr from San Diego who feels like I do. Believe me. This forum does not speak highly of their time in their localities. I feel for them. And obviously I could be where they are. I was blessed to leave as the suffocation of Life started in San Diego.
I had some very close sister friends but I did not know how to explain what I was seeing. I 'migrated' to Tempe, Az where there were some saints from San Diego already there whom I knew. It was there I listened to the Sal Benoit taped conversation he was having with Lee. I remember Lee hanging up on him. The majority of the 'elders' in Tempe were staunch Max supporters but Max faded into the sunset. And so did his 'followers'. Too bad they/we were not seeking the LORD'S direction for the church. Everyone was busy licking their wounds.

It became the 'venting church' and it soon dissolved. Everyone began to move to other parts of AZ totally breaking away from everyone associated with the LC.

It has been a hard journey for me.. very, very hard. But God is true to His Promise. He will not leave us or forsake us. Bless the LORD O MY SOUL and ALL that is within me. I am in a good place right now. PRAISE HIS HOLY NAME.

Thank you so much for sharing. I don't know how others who were never a part of San Diego relate, but you and me understand each other.

The LORD continuously bless you and fill you with His Peace in Christ Jesus.
Carol