Quote:
Originally Posted by A little brother
Don't you find it a bit too convenient? When it comes to justifying locality, Jesus was addressing the whole church in the city. When it comes to blames, Jesus spoke only to "denomination"?
One of the most dangerous attitudes in studying God's Word is believing "I" am saved so the blessings are for "ME" and the blames/curses are for "OTHERS".
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I can show you a few examples.
For example, this verse:
which said: "Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the
seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea."
One church per city.
Can you count to seven? Only 7 churches. I can almost guarantee that If you were to ask any pastor of any denomination today, how many churches there are in their city, they would not say "one". They would say the Catholic, the Lutheran, the baptist.. at least 3, 5, 10 or 20 churches in my city. I will show in a minute how the bible says a Catholic church is not a real church.
This verse indicates a denomination in that city:
Rev 2:15 "Likewise, you also have those who hold to the teaching of the Nicolaitans."
This is obviously the denominations in that city with priest-clergy distinctions. As Nico-laitan means ruler over the people.
Here Jesus said he's coming to their city, to fight against those in the Nicolaitan denomination in their city:
Rev 2:16 Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.
Here is another:
Rev 2:20 Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophet. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols.
In this city, there was a Catholic church, that's who Jezebel represents.
A good theologian like Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible makes this clear:
By her is meant the apostate church of Rome, comparable to Jezebel, the wife of Ahab; as she was the daughter of an Heathen, so is Rome Papal the daughter of Rome Pagan; and as she was the wife of Ahab, and therefore a queen, so the whore of Babylon calls herself; and as Jezebel was famous for her paintings, so the church of Rome for her pretensions to religion and holiness, and for the gaudiness of her worship; and as she was remarkable for her idolatry, whoredoms, witchcrafts, and cruel persecution of the prophets of the Lord, and for murder, and innocent blood she shed; so the church of Rome, for her idolatrous worship of images, for her whoredoms, both in a literal and spiritual sense, and for the witchcrafts, magic, and devilish arts many of her popes have been addicted to, and especially for her barbarities and cruelties exercised upon the true professors of Christ
So it means that if our city is like Thyatira with a Catholic church in it, Jesus is against that Catholic church in our city. So we better avoid that one.
Having dealt with the Catholics, Jesus then talks about the "rest of you in Thyatira", These would be the ones who just meet on the ground of locality and not because they are Roman Catholic:
Rev 2:24
Now I say to the rest of you in Thyatira, to you who do not hold to her teaching and have not learned Satan's so-called deep secrets, 'I will not impose any other burden on you,
We can see that Jesus is treating the whole city as a church. He never talks about multiple churches in the city, nor does he say "churches of Thyatira". There is only one church, and that can be only one true group of followers in any city. Not the denominations that follow Nicolai, Judaism, or Jezebel.
Someone on here before was saying how they believe that all churches in a city are a true expression of the body of Christ.
This is a false idea because Jesus is clear he is only happy with a small group of people in Sardis:
Revelation 3:4 Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy.
These few people in Sardis are the true expression of the body of Christ. The others are not. These are the true church.
In the city of Philadelphia, there is a denomination of Judaizing Christians. Jesus never treats them as just another church in the city:
Revelation 3:9 Behold, I will make those of the synagogue of Satan who say that they are Jews and are not, but lie—behold, I will make them come and bow down before your feet, and they will learn that I have loved you.
Presumably, the ones that were right in His eyes were the ones that did not divide into a denomination of Rome or a denomination of Judaizers.
In Summary
The churches that Jesus addressed were city wide, comprising all believers in each city.
There were some groups within those cities who departed from Christ - the Nicolaitans, the Judaizers, the Jezebels (Catholics, by any good bible commentator's reckoning), etc.
Jesus nowhere talks about "true believers" in the midst of the Nicolaitans or the Judaizers or the Jezebels. He will deliver some kind of punishment to these, and that is why the bible says "come out" (Revelation 18:4).
So if we think that when God sends an angel to deal with the Catholic church, he is going to skip over the "true believers" in her midst ? No, it will be like Lot, or the angel of Death in Egypt, or like the Christians fleeing the Romans in Jerusalem. For any who do not leave, and heed the call, they suffer the punishment.
As someone said before..
all of God's people came out. It is not a possible for a true believer to stay in the Catholic church for very long, for example.