Local Church Discussions - View Single Post - The Teachings of Witness Lee and the Local Church

UntoHim · 03-07-2009, 08:40 AM

"Although he is one God, yet there is the matter of three-foldness, that is, the threefold Person—the Father, the Son, and the Spirit"
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"He [the Father] is the One hidden within, and the Son is the One manifested without; yet the One who is manifested without is the One who is hidden within—the two are just one"
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"Thank the Lord, He also has two ends: at the end in heaven He is the Father, and at the end on the earth He is the Son; at the end in heaven He is the One who listens to the prayer, and at the end on earth He is the One who prays. He is both the One who prays on earth and the One who listens in heaven"
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"Therefore the Bible clearly reveals to us that the Son is the Father, and the Son is also the Spirit. Otherwise, how could these three be one God?"
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"The Son who prays is the Father who listens"
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"The Son is the Father, and the Son is also the Spirit"
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"The Lord Jesus is the Holy Spirit..."
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Witness Lee vehemently denied that he was a modalist. But as a Christian teacher it is rather irrelevant what you SAY you are - it's what you teach. Maybe in his own heart and mind he convinced himself that he was not a modalist. Again, it does not matter a lick what he said he was. The quotes above are a fair representation of what the man actually taught, and they illustrate very clearly that he taught some form of modalism.

"The Son who prays is the Father who listens."

The Bible is clear. The apostle John (and other gospel writers) who recorded the Son praying to the Father several times was clear. John was never contradicted by the other scripture writing apostles. Neither was he contradicted by the early church fathers, theologians or scholars. The Son who prayed was NOT the Father who listened. Actually, to say this is much closer to blaspheme then it is to healthy, biblical teaching. Witness Lee should have spent less time denying he was a modalist and more time pray-reading this part of the Anthanasian Creed: "neither confusing the persons nor dividing the divine being. For the Father is one person, the Son is another, and the Spirit is still another. But the deity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one, equal in glory, coeternal in majesty."

"The Son is the Father, and the Son is also the Spirit"

Witness Lee, at various times, used clearly modalistic terms such as "stages" and "successive steps". For reasons which defy common sense, the man felt no constraint whatsoever in using whatever extra-biblical/unbiblical term popped into his head. As we know, when Lee was challenged about making such absurd declarations, instead of providing solid biblical proof, he would usually employ some diversionary tactic, such as answering a question with a question (a good example is the infamous "how many life-giving Spirits are there!?") Again, the Bible is clear here. The Son is NOT CALLED the Father. The Son NEVER said He was the Father. He was sent by/from the Father, He prayed to the Father, He was one with the Father, He did the Father's will, He finished the work for which the Father sent Him, and He finally ascended to the Father and is now at the right hand of the Father (see Acts 7:55,56 - Rom 8:34 - Eph 1:20 - Col 3:1- Heb 1:3)

"The Lord Jesus is the Holy Spirit"

Sigh

Then the next thing

and finally :verysad:
What can we say that has not already been said on these Internet forums and by Christian teachers, scholars and apologists for many years. What part of "confusing the Persons" did Lee and his followers not understand? This, of course, is a rhetorical question coming from some yahoo who believed this for many years. As some have noted on this very forum, wrong teachings beget wrong thoughts about God, and wrong thoughts about God beget all sorts of negative consequences. I really and truly believe that this teaching is not just "wrong" or false, I believe that it grieves the Holy Spirit. May God have mercy on us all
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03-07-2009, 08:40 AM	#2
UntoHim Οὕτως γὰρ ἠγάπησεν ὁ θεὸς τὸν κόσμον For God So Loved The World Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 3,824	These quotes reflect the Witness Lee that I remember "Although he is one God, yet there is the matter of three-foldness, that is, the threefold Person—the Father, the Son, and the Spirit" ------------------------------------------ "He [the Father] is the One hidden within, and the Son is the One manifested without; yet the One who is manifested without is the One who is hidden within—the two are just one" ------------------------------------------ "Thank the Lord, He also has two ends: at the end in heaven He is the Father, and at the end on the earth He is the Son; at the end in heaven He is the One who listens to the prayer, and at the end on earth He is the One who prays. He is both the One who prays on earth and the One who listens in heaven" ------------------------------------------ "Therefore the Bible clearly reveals to us that the Son is the Father, and the Son is also the Spirit. Otherwise, how could these three be one God?" ------------------------------------------ "The Son who prays is the Father who listens" ------------------------------------------ "The Son is the Father, and the Son is also the Spirit" ------------------------------------------ "The Lord Jesus is the Holy Spirit..." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Witness Lee vehemently denied that he was a modalist. But as a Christian teacher it is rather irrelevant what you SAY you are - it's what you teach. Maybe in his own heart and mind he convinced himself that he was not a modalist. Again, it does not matter a lick what he said he was. The quotes above are a fair representation of what the man actually taught, and they illustrate very clearly that he taught some form of modalism. "The Son who prays is the Father who listens." The Bible is clear. The apostle John (and other gospel writers) who recorded the Son praying to the Father several times was clear. John was never contradicted by the other scripture writing apostles. Neither was he contradicted by the early church fathers, theologians or scholars. The Son who prayed was NOT the Father who listened. Actually, to say this is much closer to blaspheme then it is to healthy, biblical teaching. Witness Lee should have spent less time denying he was a modalist and more time pray-reading this part of the Anthanasian Creed: "neither confusing the persons nor dividing the divine being. For the Father is one person, the Son is another, and the Spirit is still another. But the deity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one, equal in glory, coeternal in majesty." "The Son is the Father, and the Son is also the Spirit" Witness Lee, at various times, used clearly modalistic terms such as "stages" and "successive steps". For reasons which defy common sense, the man felt no constraint whatsoever in using whatever extra-biblical/unbiblical term popped into his head. As we know, when Lee was challenged about making such absurd declarations, instead of providing solid biblical proof, he would usually employ some diversionary tactic, such as answering a question with a question (a good example is the infamous "how many life-giving Spirits are there!?") Again, the Bible is clear here. The Son is NOT CALLED the Father. The Son NEVER said He was the Father. He was sent by/from the Father, He prayed to the Father, He was one with the Father, He did the Father's will, He finished the work for which the Father sent Him, and He finally ascended to the Father and is now at the right hand of the Father (see Acts 7:55,56 - Rom 8:34 - Eph 1:20 - Col 3:1- Heb 1:3) "The Lord Jesus is the Holy Spirit" Sigh Then the next thing and finally :verysad: What can we say that has not already been said on these Internet forums and by Christian teachers, scholars and apologists for many years. What part of "confusing the Persons" did Lee and his followers not understand? This, of course, is a rhetorical question coming from some yahoo who believed this for many years. As some have noted on this very forum, wrong teachings beget wrong thoughts about God, and wrong thoughts about God beget all sorts of negative consequences. I really and truly believe that this teaching is not just "wrong" or false, I believe that it grieves the Holy Spirit. May God have mercy on us all - __________________ αὐτῷ ἡ δόξα καὶ τὸ κράτος εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας τῶν αἰώνων ἀμήν - 1 Peter 5:11