[Cal]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Hopefully I can clarify what is meant by the unique move of God. It is a misconception that when we say "the unique move of God" we are talking about our own ministry efforts. We are not. It is possible for us not to be in the unique move of God. We devote time, prayer and attention to the matter of getting "in the flow" or "staying in the flow". Why would we do that if we thought we are automatically "in the unique move of God"?

Put simply, "the unique move of God is the ministry that God does, not ourselves". Witness Lee would probably not say it that way but that is my best understanding. In Christianity most don't have this concept - they define ministry by what they do, and not by what God does.

Let us be clear that when we say "the unique move of God" we are talking about the move of God, not the move of ourselves. The unique move of God is not of ourselves, but of God. He is the initiator and we "go with the flow". It is our aim, desire, intention and goal to get in flow with "the unique move of God".

The unique move of God is evident in this verse:
Acts 2:47 "And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved."

It is the Lord who is moving to add to their number. This is a clear example of the unique move of God. It is something of God not ourselves, although we must cooperate with Him in it.

Contrast this statement to that of most gospel ministries which might say "And we added to our number through our gospel outreach program". This is a move of man.

Most Christians today think that God moves in a haphazard and random way. But the history of the church and the book of Acts reveals that God moves in a purposeful and intentional way. "God is a God of order". God as an intelligent Creator brings order to the chaos of the world. God does not move in a chaotic way to spread the gospel.

As usual, you are speaking in half-truths. Yes, God's move is of him alone--yet he uses and limits himself to imperfect people. Yes, God is not random and chaotic--yet he uses seeming random and chaotic events as opportunities to bring people to himself. Yes, there is one flow from the throne--yet that does not express itself as "one ministry" on earth--Paul said clearly there were "many ministries" (1 Cor 12:5). Yes, Paul's ministry was very important to the New Testament--yet he and the Bible never say nor imply that his ministry nor his visions supersede or even encompass all other teachings.

Evangelical, you consistently speak in half-truths, as Lee did.

And, of course, there is your reliable old saw, "most gospel ministries" and "most Christians" set up as straw men so you can knock them down, when it's plainly clear you have no idea what most Christians and ministries believe, think or do.

Christians these days are very aware that the work of God is God's work. Those in the church I meet with and the leadership there are constantly praying for God's guidance and leading. And guess what? We get it. I've never been in situation where I was so much in touch with God's practical leading of a church as I am now.

Yes, when I was in the LCM we told ourselves we were smack dab in the middle of "God's move." But why did we think that? Not so much because we sought or felt his leading, but because we thought we had all the right beliefs about everything in place--about the Christian experience, the church experience, the end times, God's economy, etc--so we must be in the right place. But in spite of that, nothing we did led to much. We just did church life year-in and year-out and bounced from thing to thing and went around in circles. There was no sense of progress. Basically we just got excited about the "revelation" from the latest Lee training for a few weeks, and then waited for the next one. From what I can tell not much has changed. It's as if the movement is stuck in a time loop, not much change, progress, growth or increase. How is that God's move?

Contrast that to my experience in the last ten years. I can definitely see the results of the Lord's guidance and leading in the church I meet with. More and more our focus has become others-centered and serving-oriented. We have branched out in our outreach. Several new churches have been planted. I myself have definitely grown and changed. Ten years ago all I had was knowledge, most of it from the LCM. Now I think I at least have a little bit of real growth and knowledge of the Lord.

It's very discouraging to hear people talking about "God's move" and instead of them talking about all the wonderful things God is doing to bring people to himself they are really just talking about how they are right and everyone else is wrong. It's sad.

LCMers talk in high-sounding phraseology, but in a very self-serving way. Take, for example, oneness. If the LCM were really as much for oneness as they claim to be there is no way they would go around with the attitudes they do about other Christians, ministries and churches. I'm sorry, but your attitude and behavior are testimonies against what you claim to have and believe. If you were really rich you'd be generously giving it away, instead of talking about how rich you are. Those who are truly rich don't talk about how stupid the poor are, they just do everything they can to help them in a spirit of support and acceptance.

Simply put, you don't do that, not the LCM in general and certainly not you here. So I'm not sure what you are more fooled about: your status or that you are fooling anyone else about it.

I can go around saying I'm a great golfer, but if I can't play the game it's just talk. The LCM can talk all they want about being for oneness and God's move. The evidence speaks otherwise.