Local Church Discussions - View Single Post - Important excerpts from Don Rutledge and Jane Anderson

askseek · 04-11-2017, 04:56 PM

request for Don R. to clarify leadership roles

You refer to Lee, Barber, and Rapoport as the main leaders in the LC. In America my impression is that Lee was the main leader and under him were John Ingalls, Bill Mallon, and James Barber. And these three worked together to travel and give conferences usually in pairs. Later Max Rapoport was brought into a prominent role by Lee and his manifestation started with his joining the others in giving a conference in Anaheim replacing Lee who was sick at the time. Apparently the audience seemed to really appreciate Rapoport's refreshing humor and ability to story tell.

Meanwhile there were regional leaders emerging: Benson Phillips, Bill Freeman, and Titus Chu who more or less dominated their areas.

From this I get that under Lee as the papal figure there were more or less about 7 key leaders. Am I correct in this? And if so what roles did they play? Especially John Ingalls and Bill Mallon who were there from the beginning with Lee in L.A.

Rutledge response

You have it pretty much right. I would add John So if you want to include Europe and Ransford Acka in Africa. The difference between Ingalls and Mallon and Barber and Rapoport was the extent of their shaping influence. Neither Ingalls nor Mallon had the force of personality or boldness to attempt to shape the churches, elders, and co-workers. They, like all, had their opinions but were primarily interested in spiritual growth and purity of testimony.

All of the seven you mentioned had one common thread. They all were devoted to and very protective of WL. They all had a superstitious notion about deputy authority, the oneness of the work or ministry, and WL's special portion. Bill Freeman and Bill Mallon were the most flexible and appreciative of what the Lord was doing in the various churches and through other brothers, both in the LC and outside. John Ingalls could be a little naive and tended to always trust everyone's good intentions. But James felt he should play a role in assuring the "Oneness of God's Move" or should I say conformity with and submission to WL and his work. Max believed in the vision of Christ and the Church and that the Lord was currently building up a practical testimony. But he was different from James in that he did not see the current way being practiced generally in most of the local churches as the way to go. You could say he started the first national new way movement in the local churches. Barber opposed, just as he had opposed and overcome the two Dougs in Berkeley. Max was stronger and prevailed. But take it as fact it was going to be James or Max. James would have included Ingalls and Mallon as his inner circle, while Max had selected a different set of supporters.

Yes the big three conference givers were JI, JB and BM and later MR. Conferences were one thing, but the extensive and exhausting private fellowships with the local and regional leaders that went on behind closed doors during the conference times was where the action was.

Here is a little 20,000 foot picture of how the various brothers operated in these sessions:

John Ingalls wanted to discuss the messages of the conferences and to learn what was happening in the various churches. He also was very interested in individuals and had an incredible memory for details regarding brothers and sisters. He was deeply interested in their well being. He also was very free to offer his help and opinion on spiritual living and functioning in the church.

Bill Mallon loved to discuss the Bible truths as well as whatever he was speaking on. He was big on fellowship regarding the experience of the cross. If things were not going smoothly, do not look to Bill for a lot of sympathy. In his view, no elder was ever treated badly, but rather we all needed more of the cross and more life. Only Benson was more interested in the fine points and details of a local project. If you were buying property, renovating a building, or getting a fax machine do not bring it up. Bill loved to discuss the details.

Bill Freeman was always soaring at least at second heaven level. He loved to discuss his latest revelation from the scriptures and to discuss "the Lord's Work". He was extremely interested in the story of any of the brothers where he was visiting. While I was with Bill F. least of all, I know more details of his life before, at, and after salvation than any of the others.

Titus Chu was a big listener. He conducted himself in a very humble manner and it was so easy to open whatever was on your heart. We were always amazed when he responded at how helpful and insightful his fellowship was. He had a different flavor in his regards for WL. It was almost a reverence and marked by great gratitude. If an apostle is one who is a special gift to the Body of Christ to give direct aid in the local building of the church, that was Titus above all others. He never pushed Witness Lee's personal work, like Freeman did, but rather gave full attention to the building up work at hand.

James Barber spoke little about what he might be sharing at the conference, but was busy reporting on issues and problems and warning the local leaders. He also had a lot to say about how things should be done and which of the elders or co-workers throughout the country/world were not exactly proper in their alignment with WL or who was working independently or who was not in life. He liked to talk about the economy, business, and politics. Many times I felt I was just in a good ole boys bull session.

Max Rapoport was ready to get with the program of taking the earth, spreading the gospel, mobilizing the saints, etc. He had little use for so-called spirituality and criticized in a generic way those who would stress purity of method over what will work. After two hours with Max, you often did not know if you should jump through a flaming hoop or just wind your watch. But you probably did have a good time.

Benson Phillips was and is the best at this type of gathering. He could control but would not exercise control. He would lead without appearing to do so. Eventually he was the strongest of all. He was a master at this type of meeting, maybe even better than WL. Whenever the session ended, we all knew our place and what we were expected to do and that Benson was in charge.

It was in this type of setting that WL controlled the churches. Later, as he traveled less he added more of his special elders/co-workers gatherings. James and Max and later Benson used this setting to gain influence throughout the country. Benson is not a dynamic speaker or Bible expositor, yet he is now the leader. How? What I introduced is the key to understanding how things were done. I am not trying to blow my own horn, but if you were not allowed into these gatherings you are not privy to the “what happened to us” full picture.

Rutledge follow-up

There were two clear categories of participants. The senior brother(s) and the juniors. The juniors listened, nodded, and maybe took notes and appeared to be impressed and enthralled. In those gatherings I was a small potato. I was not a big enough player to really have a style.

By the late 1970s, I took the Ester approach. "If I perish, I perish." If I had something to say I said it and would not yield to a WL fillabuster until I had released what was in my heart. WL actually respected me for this and eventually would listen. I doubt if it really made much of an impact on him.

Sometime around 1984–85 I was no longer under the fear of WL or Benson. I knew about their unrighteous dealings around the Daystar mess. I was complicit in immorality swept under the rug (but did not yet know about Philip Lee, the last straw for me). I still had some respect for them due to their past service and their gift but was done trying to please them and score points.

By then it was already clear that there would be no blessing on the Irving Training Center or Church and that it was just a big expensive boondoggle. By then I had seen so many snafus from WL that if there was really anything to the teaching of deputy authority, it sure was not WL. Let him take the lead in a spiritual enterprise or a business enterprise and failure was sure to result. And no, James Barber and Ray Graver, the failures of WL were not a test from the Lord.

By then watching my 14 year old son play soccer was more important than hearing the legend of WN and WL for the 50+ time from the mouth of one of the legends. In 1980 I would not have ducked out of a "critical time of fellowship" for my son's game. But by 1984 I was in the process of cutting ties. There was beginning to develop a group of brothers who were concerned for what had happened to us. Not a fermentation of rebellion but an awakening to the fact that something had gone terribly wrong.

In 1986 I moved to the forests of North Carolina. And believe me what a mental health move it was to avoid the so-called special, urgent elders/co-workers meetings. Another 18 months and I was voluntarily out. There was no need to quarantine me.

Looking back, I find it hard to believe for how long I gave the main leaders—WL, JB, MR—a pass on attitudes and behaviors which any sincere believer would reject or have serious reservations.

04-11-2017, 04:56 PM	#3
askseek Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 37	Re: important excerpts from Don Rutledge and Jane Anderson request for Don R. to clarify leadership roles You refer to Lee, Barber, and Rapoport as the main leaders in the LC. In America my impression is that Lee was the main leader and under him were John Ingalls, Bill Mallon, and James Barber. And these three worked together to travel and give conferences usually in pairs. Later Max Rapoport was brought into a prominent role by Lee and his manifestation started with his joining the others in giving a conference in Anaheim replacing Lee who was sick at the time. Apparently the audience seemed to really appreciate Rapoport's refreshing humor and ability to story tell. Meanwhile there were regional leaders emerging: Benson Phillips, Bill Freeman, and Titus Chu who more or less dominated their areas. From this I get that under Lee as the papal figure there were more or less about 7 key leaders. Am I correct in this? And if so what roles did they play? Especially John Ingalls and Bill Mallon who were there from the beginning with Lee in L.A. Rutledge response You have it pretty much right. I would add John So if you want to include Europe and Ransford Acka in Africa. The difference between Ingalls and Mallon and Barber and Rapoport was the extent of their shaping influence. Neither Ingalls nor Mallon had the force of personality or boldness to attempt to shape the churches, elders, and co-workers. They, like all, had their opinions but were primarily interested in spiritual growth and purity of testimony. All of the seven you mentioned had one common thread. They all were devoted to and very protective of WL. They all had a superstitious notion about deputy authority, the oneness of the work or ministry, and WL's special portion. Bill Freeman and Bill Mallon were the most flexible and appreciative of what the Lord was doing in the various churches and through other brothers, both in the LC and outside. John Ingalls could be a little naive and tended to always trust everyone's good intentions. But James felt he should play a role in assuring the "Oneness of God's Move" or should I say conformity with and submission to WL and his work. Max believed in the vision of Christ and the Church and that the Lord was currently building up a practical testimony. But he was different from James in that he did not see the current way being practiced generally in most of the local churches as the way to go. You could say he started the first national new way movement in the local churches. Barber opposed, just as he had opposed and overcome the two Dougs in Berkeley. Max was stronger and prevailed. But take it as fact it was going to be James or Max. James would have included Ingalls and Mallon as his inner circle, while Max had selected a different set of supporters. Yes the big three conference givers were JI, JB and BM and later MR. Conferences were one thing, but the extensive and exhausting private fellowships with the local and regional leaders that went on behind closed doors during the conference times was where the action was. Here is a little 20,000 foot picture of how the various brothers operated in these sessions: John Ingalls wanted to discuss the messages of the conferences and to learn what was happening in the various churches. He also was very interested in individuals and had an incredible memory for details regarding brothers and sisters. He was deeply interested in their well being. He also was very free to offer his help and opinion on spiritual living and functioning in the church. Bill Mallon loved to discuss the Bible truths as well as whatever he was speaking on. He was big on fellowship regarding the experience of the cross. If things were not going smoothly, do not look to Bill for a lot of sympathy. In his view, no elder was ever treated badly, but rather we all needed more of the cross and more life. Only Benson was more interested in the fine points and details of a local project. If you were buying property, renovating a building, or getting a fax machine do not bring it up. Bill loved to discuss the details. Bill Freeman was always soaring at least at second heaven level. He loved to discuss his latest revelation from the scriptures and to discuss "the Lord's Work". He was extremely interested in the story of any of the brothers where he was visiting. While I was with Bill F. least of all, I know more details of his life before, at, and after salvation than any of the others. Titus Chu was a big listener. He conducted himself in a very humble manner and it was so easy to open whatever was on your heart. We were always amazed when he responded at how helpful and insightful his fellowship was. He had a different flavor in his regards for WL. It was almost a reverence and marked by great gratitude. If an apostle is one who is a special gift to the Body of Christ to give direct aid in the local building of the church, that was Titus above all others. He never pushed Witness Lee's personal work, like Freeman did, but rather gave full attention to the building up work at hand. James Barber spoke little about what he might be sharing at the conference, but was busy reporting on issues and problems and warning the local leaders. He also had a lot to say about how things should be done and which of the elders or co-workers throughout the country/world were not exactly proper in their alignment with WL or who was working independently or who was not in life. He liked to talk about the economy, business, and politics. Many times I felt I was just in a good ole boys bull session. Max Rapoport was ready to get with the program of taking the earth, spreading the gospel, mobilizing the saints, etc. He had little use for so-called spirituality and criticized in a generic way those who would stress purity of method over what will work. After two hours with Max, you often did not know if you should jump through a flaming hoop or just wind your watch. But you probably did have a good time. Benson Phillips was and is the best at this type of gathering. He could control but would not exercise control. He would lead without appearing to do so. Eventually he was the strongest of all. He was a master at this type of meeting, maybe even better than WL. Whenever the session ended, we all knew our place and what we were expected to do and that Benson was in charge. It was in this type of setting that WL controlled the churches. Later, as he traveled less he added more of his special elders/co-workers gatherings. James and Max and later Benson used this setting to gain influence throughout the country. Benson is not a dynamic speaker or Bible expositor, yet he is now the leader. How? What I introduced is the key to understanding how things were done. I am not trying to blow my own horn, but if you were not allowed into these gatherings you are not privy to the “what happened to us” full picture. Rutledge follow-up There were two clear categories of participants. The senior brother(s) and the juniors. The juniors listened, nodded, and maybe took notes and appeared to be impressed and enthralled. In those gatherings I was a small potato. I was not a big enough player to really have a style. By the late 1970s, I took the Ester approach. "If I perish, I perish." If I had something to say I said it and would not yield to a WL fillabuster until I had released what was in my heart. WL actually respected me for this and eventually would listen. I doubt if it really made much of an impact on him. Sometime around 1984–85 I was no longer under the fear of WL or Benson. I knew about their unrighteous dealings around the Daystar mess. I was complicit in immorality swept under the rug (but did not yet know about Philip Lee, the last straw for me). I still had some respect for them due to their past service and their gift but was done trying to please them and score points. By then it was already clear that there would be no blessing on the Irving Training Center or Church and that it was just a big expensive boondoggle. By then I had seen so many snafus from WL that if there was really anything to the teaching of deputy authority, it sure was not WL. Let him take the lead in a spiritual enterprise or a business enterprise and failure was sure to result. And no, James Barber and Ray Graver, the failures of WL were not a test from the Lord. By then watching my 14 year old son play soccer was more important than hearing the legend of WN and WL for the 50+ time from the mouth of one of the legends. In 1980 I would not have ducked out of a "critical time of fellowship" for my son's game. But by 1984 I was in the process of cutting ties. There was beginning to develop a group of brothers who were concerned for what had happened to us. Not a fermentation of rebellion but an awakening to the fact that something had gone terribly wrong. In 1986 I moved to the forests of North Carolina. And believe me what a mental health move it was to avoid the so-called special, urgent elders/co-workers meetings. Another 18 months and I was voluntarily out. There was no need to quarantine me. Looking back, I find it hard to believe for how long I gave the main leaders—WL, JB, MR—a pass on attitudes and behaviors which any sincere believer would reject or have serious reservations.