Local Church Discussions - View Single Post - A Woman of Chayil: Far Above Rubies by Jane Carole Anderson

Evangelical · 04-06-2017, 05:12 PM

I think the facts of mistranslation should be separated from the conspiracy.

For example, it is a fact that the word teshuqa was mistranslated. It is a conspiracy that this means that Paul is wrong when he says that a woman should not hold authority over a man because "Adam was created first".

There are a few questions here.

One is, was the word teshuqa mistranslated? I believe the answer is yes.

It was because of Jerome who was heavily influenced by Jewish scholars and the "ten curses of Eve" and their negative opinions towards women ("thank God he did not make me a woman"):
http://www.notredamedesion.org/en/di...p?a=3b&id=1120

https://godswordtowomen.org/lesson%2016.htm says:
"The sense "desire" has come to us from the Talmud, in the "Ten Curses of Eve.""

The second question is, what is the correct meaning of teshuqa?

The word is used three times in different contexts:

Genesis 3:16, "-and-to-Adam, Eve's teshuqa."

Genesis 4:7,11 "-and-to-Cain, Abel's teshuqa"
(or perhaps sin's teshuqa,)

Sol. Song 7:10, "-and-to-the-Church Christ's teshuqa"
(as usually interpreted).

https://godswordtowomen.org/lesson%2016.htm

I think it is clear that the word does not mean lust (as in sensual), or desire (as in sensual). It does not mean "desire to control or destroy" (the husband) either as a number of modern translations have put it.

I believe the word "turning" means that the woman turned from God and as a consequence, Adam would rule over her:

https://godswordtowomen.org/lesson%2017.htm
The Pentateuch of the Septuagint is especially esteemed for its accuracy. This version renders teshuqa into the Greek word apostrophe in both passages in Genesis: and epistrophe in Canticles. The former word, apostrophe, is familiar to us all: it means "turning away," and the latter, "turning to." The teaching is, that Eve is turning away from God to her husband, and, as a consequence of that deflection, Adam will rule over her.

136. Likewise, the sense "turning" reconciles the three passages one with another, whereas the sense "desire" puts them in utter conflict. Eve is "turning" from God, and He warns her that if she does this, she will fall under the dominion of Adam. Abel is "turning" toward Cain, in all the confidence of a younger and unsuspecting brother. God warns Cain prophetically that this confiding approach of his brother will be a temptation to slay him in his defenselessness. The third passage is a joyful boast of the bridegroom's favor and attention, "He is turning to me."

I believe the proper understanding of this verse is not:
"Your husband will rule over you if you don't submit to Me", as a kind of a threat.

But this:

"because you turned away from Me, your husband will rule over you, for your protection"

I added "for your protection" because that is Witness Lee's understanding.

In other words, the husband ruling over the wife is for her benefit, not to do her harm. The bible's instruction for the man to the woman is to be her provider and protector.

Does it mean that if Eve turned back to God her husband would not rule over her? No. There is nothing about the fall's curses that can be undone in this life. A man who obeys God today does not find "tilling the ground" much easier. Women who obey God today do not find themselves free of pain in childbirth, for example.

Some women may say "as long as I am obeying God, I don't have to obey my husband". This is wrong. This view is like saying that as long as Christians obey God, they don't have to obey the governing authorities.
A Christian obeying the governing authorities is them obeying God.
Rom 13:1

Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.

A woman obeying her husband is her obeying God.

Let us not think that a woman obeying God does not mean she does not have to obey her husband.

This sort of wrong thinking is also manifested in other ways e.g.

"Because God provides for my needs I don't have to get a job. "

04-06-2017, 05:12 PM	#185
Evangelical Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 3,965	Re: A Woman of Chayil: Far Above Rubies by Jane Carole Anderson I think the facts of mistranslation should be separated from the conspiracy. For example, it is a fact that the word teshuqa was mistranslated. It is a conspiracy that this means that Paul is wrong when he says that a woman should not hold authority over a man because "Adam was created first". There are a few questions here. One is, was the word teshuqa mistranslated? I believe the answer is yes. It was because of Jerome who was heavily influenced by Jewish scholars and the "ten curses of Eve" and their negative opinions towards women ("thank God he did not make me a woman"): http://www.notredamedesion.org/en/di...p?a=3b&id=1120 https://godswordtowomen.org/lesson%2016.htm says: "The sense "desire" has come to us from the Talmud, in the "Ten Curses of Eve."" The second question is, what is the correct meaning of teshuqa? The word is used three times in different contexts: Genesis 3:16, "-and-to-Adam, Eve's teshuqa." Genesis 4:7,11 "-and-to-Cain, Abel's teshuqa" (or perhaps sin's teshuqa,) Sol. Song 7:10, "-and-to-the-Church Christ's teshuqa" (as usually interpreted). https://godswordtowomen.org/lesson%2016.htm I think it is clear that the word does not mean lust (as in sensual), or desire (as in sensual). It does not mean "desire to control or destroy" (the husband) either as a number of modern translations have put it. I believe the word "turning" means that the woman turned from God and as a consequence, Adam would rule over her: https://godswordtowomen.org/lesson%2017.htm The Pentateuch of the Septuagint is especially esteemed for its accuracy. This version renders teshuqa into the Greek word apostrophe in both passages in Genesis: and epistrophe in Canticles. The former word, apostrophe, is familiar to us all: it means "turning away," and the latter, "turning to." The teaching is, that Eve is turning away from God to her husband, and, as a consequence of that deflection, Adam will rule over her. 136. Likewise, the sense "turning" reconciles the three passages one with another, whereas the sense "desire" puts them in utter conflict. Eve is "turning" from God, and He warns her that if she does this, she will fall under the dominion of Adam. Abel is "turning" toward Cain, in all the confidence of a younger and unsuspecting brother. God warns Cain prophetically that this confiding approach of his brother will be a temptation to slay him in his defenselessness. The third passage is a joyful boast of the bridegroom's favor and attention, "He is turning to me." I believe the proper understanding of this verse is not: "Your husband will rule over you if you don't submit to Me", as a kind of a threat. But this: "because you turned away from Me, your husband will rule over you, for your protection" I added "for your protection" because that is Witness Lee's understanding. In other words, the husband ruling over the wife is for her benefit, not to do her harm. The bible's instruction for the man to the woman is to be her provider and protector. Does it mean that if Eve turned back to God her husband would not rule over her? No. There is nothing about the fall's curses that can be undone in this life. A man who obeys God today does not find "tilling the ground" much easier. Women who obey God today do not find themselves free of pain in childbirth, for example. Some women may say "as long as I am obeying God, I don't have to obey my husband". This is wrong. This view is like saying that as long as Christians obey God, they don't have to obey the governing authorities. A Christian obeying the governing authorities is them obeying God. Rom 13:1 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. A woman obeying her husband is her obeying God. Let us not think that a woman obeying God does not mean she does not have to obey her husband. This sort of wrong thinking is also manifested in other ways e.g. "Because God provides for my needs I don't have to get a job. "