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Old 12-07-2016, 03:55 PM   #125
OBW
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Default Re: The title is biased

Regarding the polls, you seem to demonstrate that you really didn't read the statistics very carefully. If it is just another of a group of "polls are polls" then you might not have paid close enough attention to what was meant by the stratification labels. Was Christian clearly Christian or just culturally so? Was "mainstream" mentioned and not clearly stated as including evangelicals (in the normal use of terms here it would not) or what other qualifiers?
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Originally Posted by Evangelical View Post
Regarding "beat the sinner" methods. Let's consider an example. Ted and Fred are happily married and want to become Christians. They were raised in a culture where gay marriage is universally accepted as normal (let's say Canada, for example), they don't know it is wrong. They ask you "OBW, I want to be a Christian, what do I have to do?" What would you say to them?

I would say - well you need to repent of your sin first. And they would say "what sin?, I am a good person, I give to the poor, I help bake cakes for the local church". I will say, God does not approve of homosexuality, you need to repent of that. If they repent, great, I can continue with God's grace and assurance of salvation etc etc. If not, it is hardly appropriate to continue the conversation about God's forgiveness etc.
While I understand your concern, it seems that your version of what they have to do to be saved is contrary to what even you have said in other places. When asked "What must I do to be saved," it was Peter or Paul (can't remember which at the moment) that said "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved." Not "Recognize everything that I say is a sin and repent of that first, then believe and you will be saved."

I do not pretend that the homosexual who would turn to believe in Christ without recognizing the status of their "lifestyle" as sin according to that Christ is stepping into a difficult situation. But if you don't have to absolutely cease sinning to be a believer in Christ, why should he? Parse through your hierarchy of sins and note that the only sin for which forgiveness is not given is the sin of not asking for forgiveness.

You would have it such that there is much that the homosexual must do before he can be saved. That sounds like a works-based salvation.
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