Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah
I defined the thread with the first post. If you want to persuade me you will need to do it with the fellowship of the apostles. That is my requirement. You asked me this question, I have started this thread in response to you, and I am willing to discuss this. However, my requirement is that I will submit to the fellowship of the apostles. I will recognize that as having the authority. This is fully in line with Witness Lee's ministry as he also said that the ultimate authority in the New Testament is the fellowship of the apostles. You can quote Witness Lee all you want, but if you cannot make your argument from the fellowship of the apostles it just proves that "degraded Christianity" is a false construct of Witness Lee and not a New Testament truth.
I'm sorry but your credibility is already at rock bottom. Your contention now is that Witness Lee did not denigrate the term "religion"?
“Anything that is scriptural and even spiritual, yet without life, becomes religion” (Witness Lee, Christ versus Religion, Chapter 12, Section 6)
"Religion is a human invention, a product of the fallen human mind." (Witness Lee, Life Study of John, Chapter 14, Section 1)
"religion is anything done for Christ but not having the presence and reality of Christ." (Witness Lee, Enjoying Christ as the All-inclusive Spirit for the Practical, Genuine, and Real Church Life, Chapter 1, Section 3).
"Religion is to try to worship God but without God, Christ, or the Spirit." (Witness Lee, The Recovery of Christ in the Present Evil Age, Chapter 1, Section 2)
We do not like to set up social and charitable works such as schools and hospitals. The apostle Paul did not do this kind of work. (Witness Lee, Basic Lessons on Service, Chapter 15, Section 2).
Honestly Evangelical, do you even know Witness Lee at all?
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ZNPaaneah, you defined the thread in the first post in which you made reference to Witness Lee twice. You then proceeded to say that this thread is not about Witness Lee's ministry, yet you continue to quote and reference him, which is, lo and behold, his teaching and ministry. I personally am fully able to talk about this matter without referencing Lee, which I have done when I described my personal experiences in degraded Christianity. It seems you are unable to prove Christianity is not degraded without making counter-arguments to Witness Lee's teachings.
Others, such as testallthings has already picked up your inability to quote and reference on topic, when you provided a quote to me in another thread from Watchman Nee's book that was nothing to do with what you said it meant. So you are not the best person to be defining the context of threads. It is not my credibility in question here, but rather your rationality and consistency.
Further, your insistence that it is about nominal Christianity versus degraded is frankly, idiotic (to use a term you used previously). Nominal means "in name only" therefore you are saying these churches in Revelation are "in name Christians" only and not real churches. That is worse than saying they are degraded. You are not the expert of the English language and logic that you think you are, ZNPaaneah.
I thought this thread would be about people's personal experiences of why Christianity is not degraded. Perhaps it is the great church you currently attend, perhaps a great one you attended in the past. Perhaps there is an entire country with no degraded churches at all, that I know nothing about and would love to visit. So far no one has been able to provide anything to support the idea that Christianity is not degraded, except counter-arguments to Witness Lee's doctrine.
Even if I agree with you that Lee was wrong about Christianity being degraded, doesn't change the fact that the majority of churches established in most cities and towns around the world, are full of Sunday Christians promoted by a religious organisation and structure that runs counter to the new testament blueprint that Christ established with his closest 12. That is an observation that not just Lee, but many church leaders and lay people in the past have made. That is why institutionalised Christianity is on the decline in many areas of the world, and house or community churches are growing.