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Originally Posted by Evangelical
I'm confused ZNPaaneah. When I post something not related to Lee or Nee, I am told that this forum is about Lee or Nee's ministry. Now when I post something in reference to Lee, I am told by you that it is not about Lee. It seems this forum has some sort of identity crisis. Or at least, it is convenient for some members to decide when it is about Lee and when it is not about Lee, to suit their own purposes.
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I defined the thread with the first post. If you want to persuade me you will need to do it with the fellowship of the apostles. That is my requirement. You asked me this question, I have started this thread in response to you, and I am willing to discuss this. However, my requirement is that I will submit to the fellowship of the apostles. I will recognize that as having the authority. This is fully in line with Witness Lee's ministry as he also said that the ultimate authority in the New Testament is the fellowship of the apostles. You can quote Witness Lee all you want, but if you cannot make your argument from the fellowship of the apostles it just proves that "degraded Christianity" is a false construct of Witness Lee and not a New Testament truth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evangelical
You said
It is very alarming to me that Witness Lee felt it necessary to denigrate this term.
I was not talking about his ministry but refuting what you said. My post showed you that he did not "denigrate a term". He spoke positively of religion, even saying Judaism is the true religion. He spoke of religion for what it was - a system of beliefs and rituals. He said that systems of beliefs and rituals do not give life. If we are a Christian we would have to agree with that. Religion does not give life, and from this point of view religion is a negative thing. Even your pet verse in James - taking care of orphans and widows, does not give life. It is a good thing to do, but cannot give life.
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I'm sorry but your credibility is already at rock bottom. Your contention now is that Witness Lee did not denigrate the term "religion"?
“Anything that is scriptural and even spiritual, yet without life, becomes religion” (Witness Lee, Christ versus Religion, Chapter 12, Section 6)
"Religion is a human invention, a product of the fallen human mind." (Witness Lee, Life Study of John, Chapter 14, Section 1)
"religion is anything done for Christ but not having the presence and reality of Christ." (Witness Lee, Enjoying Christ as the All-inclusive Spirit for the Practical, Genuine, and Real Church Life, Chapter 1, Section 3).
"Religion is to try to worship God but without God, Christ, or the Spirit." (Witness Lee, The Recovery of Christ in the Present Evil Age, Chapter 1, Section 2)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evangelical
You seem to be twisted Lee's words to mean that he was against taking care of orphans and widows. That is not the meaning of being "against religion".
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Oh my bad, did I twist Witness Lee's words? Here, let Witness Lee respond:
"Religion is something formed by the human mentality under Satan's instigation and inspiration in order to oppose God's economy. Apparently, religion is for God, but in actuality, it is fully against Him." (Witness Lee, The Lord's Recovery and the Present Situation of Religion, Chapter 2, Section 1)
We do not like to set up social and charitable works such as schools and hospitals. The apostle Paul did not do this kind of work. (Witness Lee, Basic Lessons on Service, Chapter 15, Section 2).
Honestly Evangelical, do you even know Witness Lee at all? Witness Lee claimed that according to the New Testament religion in not a good word.
"Of course, I realize that this word does not sound well to religious ears. But if we read our Bible in Galatians, we can see that religion is not a positive word." (Witness Lee, The Indwelling Christ in the Canon of the New Testament, Chapter 11, Section 2).
So go ahead, use the Bible and prove that the word Religion is not a positive word.
I have already discussed the letters to the churches in Ephesus and Smyrna in Revelation 2. In this portion you can see those who claim to be Jews and are not. They are nominal, pretending to be believers, but actually they are the synagogue of Satan. You can call them a false religion, followers of a false Christ, a different gospel, another Jesus, fruit of a cursed tree, etc. But when you denigrate all religion because of the false ones it is as though you are cutting cancer out with a butter knife. Witness Lee equated the Judaizers in the book of Galatians with all religion. That is clearly not the New Testament understanding of the word. As I have said there are references to religion in Acts, Galatians and James. The only way you can get Witness Lee's definition is to ignore 2/3 of the uses, and then to equate Judaizers with the Jewish religion in the book of Galatians, which Paul does not do. He gives his testimony of leaving the Jewish religion, and then he gives his experience of Judaizers damaging the church. These Judaizers were acting according to their own opinion and not according to revelation.
But that cannot and does not mean that everyone who was ever in the Jewish religion was lacking in Revelation. Such claim would be idiotic. But, yes, that idiotic claim is Witness Lee's claim.