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Old 10-10-2016, 06:04 AM   #13
ZNPaaneah
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 7,105
Default Re: Do you think Christianity is degraded?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evangelical View Post
from "Misrepresenting Witness Lee’s Critique of Christianity ".
To say that something is degraded simply means that it has fallen below its ordinary standards or that it has negatively changed in its function and structure.17 According to Witness Lee’s teaching in Practice, the system of Christianity is degraded in its standards, function, and structure because it has developed “formalities and rituals,” “regulations and unscriptural practices,” “hierarchy” with “ambition” for position, and the “clergy-laity system.” Today’s Christianity is also full of divisions.18 It is these negative matters that kill the organic function of the members of the Body of Christ.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witness_Lee
This degraded religious system [of Christianity] takes the natural, human, traditional, cultural, and religious way. Humanly speaking, religion is a good thing, but spiritually speaking it is something against God's economy. God does not want a religion, but He surely wants to see His economy accomplished. We are not here for religion but for God's economy, which is to propagate His completed Christ to produce the church as the Body of such a Christ.
— Witness Lee, The God-ordained Way to Practice the New Testament Economy

The church includes all those who share the common faith that saves us, the one faith spoken of in Ephesians 4:5. This faith is held in common by all who are saved (2 Pet. 1:1). This faith causes the believers to be one and does not divide them. Any creed or system of teaching that goes beyond the common faith divides the believers.
— Witness Lee, Crucial Truths in the Holy Scriptures, Vol. 6
The fellowship of the apostles define what the common faith is that we all share.

The issues you raise -- formalities, rituals, regulations, unscriptural practices, hierarchy, and clergy laity system are all depicted in the letters to the seven churches in Revelation. Therefore I will address these by looking at those verses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evangelical View Post
This is because the system is wrong.
We need to look at the cause. I believe the cause for the issues you raise is due to false prophets, false teachers, the flesh, sin, and people leaving the fellowship of the apostles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evangelical View Post
Many bible colleges of large denominations are producing paid ministers, clergy who are not Christians. Some are Buddhist, some are atheist. They stay in that role because it's a job. They may care for humanity, but they don't believe the Bible. Some are into spirit-ism, some are clairvoyants and spirit mediums. Because they are ordained, they are allowed to handle the bread and wine, but a regular lay person cannot. In a real church it is not possible for a leader to not be a Christian. But the degraded system of Christianity has made this possible. This is because it is about promoting and building up the organization rather than the kingdom of God. For that reason they do not really care if the leaders are Christians or not. As long a they are qualified and experienced to lead a service it is acceptable for them.
Here you are talking about nominal Christians. The term degraded refers to something that was at one time not degraded. A nominal Christian may never have been a genuine believer, hence they are not "degraded", they are simply false.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evangelical View Post
Social clubs - many churches are essentially just Christ-less social clubs. In my experience Bible studies were actually not about studying the bible but discussion about ones favorite movies in relation to some ethical or human consideration. Most of the discussion was nothing about God or the Bible.

In a Christ-less degraded church service, it is possible to attend a service and never hear the name of Christ mentioned once. It is possible to hear about many things about finance, miracles, healings, how to be a good husband or wife, but nothing about Christ.

I have also been in churches which hold meditation services, very similar to yoga meditation classes. It promotes tranquility and perhaps has some benefit to the soul but again, has nothing to do with Christ.
Once again you are not talking about degraded Christianity but nominal Christianity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evangelical View Post
Christians not knowing how to pray or the basics of the Bible - only a degraded system could produce converts or church members who cannot pray or know the basics of the Bible. In many churches the things the members can do or not do is controlled by the pastor or priest. There is actually no freedom to pray in the middle of the service or speak or share a message from the Bible. Everything is controlled by the pastor or priest and order of service. A service cannot happen without the pastor or priest being present. This is a degraded situation.

I could go on with many other examples of the degraded system of Christianity.
Pastors controlling services are not in and of themselves evidence of a degraded meeting. I was in large meetings in Taipei, in Hall 1, led by Witness Lee, and he fully controlled what took place in the meeting. Yes, we typically had an opportunity during the meeting to speak into a microphone, but I have never had the level of control in a Christian context that I experienced in the FTTT. They controlled the clothes we wore, the food we ate, where we slept, how much time we had for a shower, what time we were awake, what time we slept, how we exercised, etc. No one thought that this level of control could be exhibited in a regular meeting, but the thought was that since we put ourselves into a position where Witness Lee could control everything it would be very beneficial.
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