Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah
Witness Lee defines religion as anything that we do for God apart from God. I reject this definition as not Biblical. It is very clear from the fellowship of the Apostles that this is not a valid definition.
So, no, I disagree with your assertion. Prove it from the fellowship of the Apostles. Witness Lee's books can be referenced by you all you wish, but the ultimate authority in my opinion, and Witness Lee's opinion, is the fellowship of the apostles.
Once again, you can reference Watchman Nee books if you please, but I will only acknowledge the authority of the apostle's fellowship on this topic.
I find the reference to "hierarchical" and "organized" idiotic. The New Testament provides a lot of discussion on the organization of the church. The idea that "hierarchical" is equivalent to "degraded" is based on a very poor assumption that the term "nicolaitan" refers to a hierarchy that stifles the function of the members of the Body. That is a very poor and self serving example of biblical interpretation. No verse is of its own interpretation, particularly when you have an undefined term that you define a certain way because that is what you want it to mean. Even the term "the body of Christ" implies organization. Our body is highly organized. All life forms are organized. I consider Witness Lee's use of this to be very hypocritical. He condemns all Christian organizations as being "organized" hence degraded. Yet he himself was the head of a very big organization and he put his profligate son in charge of a Christian ministry even though he was well aware of how degraded he was. He condemned seminary and then set up his own seminary. His condemnation was merely self justification.
I also find the term "not normal" to be "not useful". The record in the New Testament is very clear, what we see in all forms of Christian meetings is in fact what has been accurately described with great detail in the New Testament. Therefore it is "typical", it is "expected", it is "anticipated", and it appears to be "necessary". Is it normal for a child to get measles or mumps? It is typical, it is common, and it may be necessary to develop immunity either by getting the childhood disease or by getting a vaccination. But the word "normal" may not apply. Therefore I feel this term is not helpful in understanding this issue.
What you refer to as "degraded Christianity" I see as something that Christians need to experience and overcome to grow into full maturity. You cannot overcome these things if you do not experience them, just as you cannot develop immunity to the mumps unless you experience it, either by being exposed to the disease or to a vaccine. In my understanding the reference to "false prophets", "heresies", "false teachers", all refer to these necessary diseases that we must overcome. Jezebel and Balaam are examples. The teaching of the Nicolaitans is an example. The Judaizers were an example. James is an example of someone who was exposed to this disease, developed immunity to it, overcame it, and then his ministry was a vaccination for the Body of Christ.
|
If you think we can do things for God without God, makes me wonder why God gave us the Holy Spirit, and spiritual gifts etc. And why Jesus said:
John 15:5
"I am the vine; you are the branches. The one who remains in Me and I in him produces much fruit,
because you can do nothing without Me.
"
Hierarchy is also mentioned in Matthew 23:9 and
Matthew 20:25 "But Jesus called them to him and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great ones exercise authority over them."
So the fellowship of the apostles, no, the words of Christ Himself, tells me that hierarchy is not normal.
I'm curious to know if you think the Reformation should have happened? Or perhaps Christians should have stayed in the Roman Catholic church and overcame it rather than separate from it.