[Cal]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

I make no apologies. If you want local church members to post here then expect local church answers.

It's not the model "I prefer". It's the model revealed in the Bible. Time and time again when the local church is mentioned it is by the locality (the city name etc).

The Bible mentions the church in the city, but it doesn't command that we meet "as" the church in the city. There are at least four instances in the NT that mention a church "in the house" and there is no reason to assume the church in the house is the same as the church in the city unless you've already predetermined it is, which is circular thinking. Further there is one other place were it mentions the church in a region, Galatia.

Now you can rationalize these other manifestations of church away, as Nee did, but as I said the only ground to do it is if you've predetermined that the church in the city is the only valid "ground," which is faulty reasoning. So therefore the church in the city as the only valid model is put in reasonable question. Therefore insisting on the church in the city, discounting other manifestations of church, is unreasonable and so in violation of the NT command to "let each be fully persuaded in his own mind." Which is why the LCM mindset is wrong.

I believe the church in the city exists. But there is no compelling reason to believe that it must be organized and administrated as the LCM is. The LCM superficially calls itself the church in the city and thinks if you call yourself that then that's what you are. It doesn't work that way.

Further, there is no way of determining whether the "elders" of a group which claims to be the church in the city are actually the elders God wants everyone in that city to follow. Suppose there are two groups claiming to be the church in the city. Which one do you join? This problem actually exists. You know what the LCM does? They just say the other group is invalid. As if they have "franchise rights." Oh really? Now, why would that be?

How do I know if another group starts meeting as the church in the city that they are not the ones to meet with? That others were there first? "Squatters right?" That they claim be following the right ministry? There's your hierarchy. The LCM has never joined another existing city church. Every time they've come across one they've either taken it over, or if it refuses that they've discounted it and started another church. That's some of the history of your movement you've chosen to ignore.

The LCM has historically rejected any group which called itself the church in the city that didn't submit to their little movement. They find some convenient reason to discount it. What gives the LCM movement the right to do this kind of thing? To be judge, jury and executioner of every church that doesn't align itself with them? Please explain.

You cannot find a denominational or a hierarchical structured model anywhere in the Bible. I do the right thing and request others to present to me these "different models" and no one can show me.

Already shown you the house churches. There is nothing in the Bible that says a church can't have a "name." Plus the LCM is a hierarchy going right up to the Blendeds. Not admitting that is just denial.

Please listen to yourself. Trying to argue that such an important matter as the church is not something Jesus revealed to us.

Please listen to yourself. You are a tiny sect of Christianity yet you are insisting that you are doing church right and everyone else in history has done it wrong. You have set yourself up as the judges of every Christian group in the world. You have expected everyone to line up with you, and if they don't, you've declared them as outside of God's genuine move. In the meantime, people are getting saved, growing, being shepherded and building the church outside your little walls and the only way you are getting new members is stealing their sheep because you can't seem to get anyone saved yourselves. Yet you are right and everyone else is wrong. Yessiree.

This is classic sect/cult thinking: "We are the only one's that see it." What are the odds that this is true? What are the odds that only you guys get it, especially considering that there is no evidence that the LCM way has produced better, wiser, more mature, etc, Christians than anyone else. In fact, often the opposite is true. I've come in contact with LCMers I knew decades ago. I don't get any sense they have more growth or a better relationship with God than me. In fact, in some ways they seem stunted.

You're like the Mormons. The Mormons believe they are among the few who've figured out that Jesus really isn't God. They claim to be Christians, but the odds are extremely remote that they've got it right and the other 99% have it wrong. This simple fact never occurs to them. Apparently it never occurs to you either.

Or you are merely recounting negative experiences that happened decades ago in the 70's and 80's. Things seem to have moved on, the LR has moved on. Welcome to the 21st Century.

I would say you are actually very ignorant of the history of the group you are giving you life to.

The things done in the name of Christianity by the denominations has far exceeded any negative thing that the LR has ever done as far as I see it. Inquisitions, murders, etc.

Yet you are all defending them as if they are the exemplar of what church is all about.

Let's stick to recent history, okay? Every group has problems. You are one unwilling to face the recent ugliness in the group you belong to. You are the one ignoring recent history.

Hopefully my post has demonstrated enough "independent thought" for my little brainwashed mind .

Not really.