Local Church Discussions - View Single Post - Merged Thread: Various Themes by Evangelical

Evangelical · 09-02-2016, 04:53 AM

Watchman Nee was highly influenced by EM Barber, who held to Keswick theology and numerous others including Roman Catholic mystical quietists.
If you hold to Nee's theology you are essentially a Keswick theologian.

But suppose you reject Nee and Lee and choose to just "follow Christ". It sounds noble, it sounds spiritual, but let's see for a moment if that is even possible. We are still a follower of someone. Everyone's a follower of someone, whether they admit it or not. It is impossible to read the Bible with a neutral and unbiased mind. Born in America? Your reading of the Bible will be skewed by your American worldview. Are you African? You may interpret some parables of Jesus differently to someone would in the West, as your ideas of the family and social structure may be different. All of these things skew our interpretation of the Bible.

What is your natural disposition? This will influence which Bible verses "stand out" to you the most, and upon which ones you like to dwell.

What version of the Bible did you read? King James? He ordered that the scribes change some of the words in the bible to better reflect his views of his church, the church of England. They made a new version of the Bible to suit their purposes and desires.

Do you believe in salvation by grace alone? You follow Martin Luther.
Luther wrote some harsh things against the Jews:

"On the Jews and Their Lies"
"First, to set fire to their synagogues or schools … This is to be done in honor of our Lord and of Christendom, so that God might see that we are Christians …"
"Second, I advise that their houses also be razed and destroyed."
"Third, I advise that all their prayer books and Talmudic writings, in which such idolatry, lies, cursing, and blasphemy are taught, be taken from them."
"Fourth, I advise that their rabbis be forbidden to teach henceforth on pain of loss of life and limb …"
"Fifth, I advise that safe-conduct on the highways be abolished completely for the Jews. For they have no business in the countryside …"
"Sixth, I advise that usury be prohibited to them, and that all cash and treasure of silver and gold be taken from them …"
"Seventh, I recommend putting a flail, an ax, a hoe, a spade, a distaff, or a spindle into the hands of young, strong Jews and Jewesses and letting them earn their bread in the sweat of their brow … But if we are afraid that they might harm us or our wives, children, servants, cattle, etc., … then let us emulate the common sense of other nations such as France, Spain, Bohemia, etc., … then eject them forever from the country …"

Believe in total depravity, free grace? God's sovereignty? You follow Calvin.
Calvin condemned a man to death:
“On October 27, 1553 John Calvin, the founder of Calvinism, had Michael Servetus, the Spanish physician, burned at the stake just outside of Geneva"

Read Paul's letter to the Corinthians? You follow Paul.
Read the Gospel of Luke? You follow Luke and his spin on the gospel, as opposed to Matthew.

Accept the New Testament Canon? You follow the so many men who chose what should go in that.
Have an English version of the Bible? Others decided how it should be translated for you, you didn't get the choice.

Believe in the Trinity? - chances are you were "brainwashed" to believe in that by others, or you would be labelled a "heretic" and cast out of your mainstream denomination if you didn't. Try to prove you got it from the Bible? Catholic Church fathers perverted the text in Matthew 28:19. The original said:
With one word and voice He said to His disciples: “Go, and make disciples of all nations in My Name, teaching them to observe all things whatsover I have commanded you,” — (Proof of the Gospel by Eusebius, Book III, ch 6, 132 (a), p. 152)

Believe in the Nicene Creed? Constantine and early Roman Catholic fathers in 325 AD wrote that for you to believe today. Jesus never wrote or said it.

Bible chapter and verse numbering - your view is skewed by this too. Sometimes it is incorrect and distorts the context. A person who knows Hebrew well might tell you.

You may not have books written by Luther, Calvin, King James, on your shelves, but it is their thoughts and philosophies that influence your thinking today and those that came before. In addition to the thoughts and philosophies of your society, your family, friends, and your own random thoughts and imaginations as well.

When you sit with your Bible alone and think you are getting the pure unadulterated Word of God and becoming a better theologian because the Spirit is magically giving you all of the "sound teaching" that others cannot give you, better think again.

09-02-2016, 04:53 AM	#18
Evangelical Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 3,965	Are you really following "Christ alone"? Watchman Nee was highly influenced by EM Barber, who held to Keswick theology and numerous others including Roman Catholic mystical quietists. If you hold to Nee's theology you are essentially a Keswick theologian. But suppose you reject Nee and Lee and choose to just "follow Christ". It sounds noble, it sounds spiritual, but let's see for a moment if that is even possible. We are still a follower of someone. Everyone's a follower of someone, whether they admit it or not. It is impossible to read the Bible with a neutral and unbiased mind. Born in America? Your reading of the Bible will be skewed by your American worldview. Are you African? You may interpret some parables of Jesus differently to someone would in the West, as your ideas of the family and social structure may be different. All of these things skew our interpretation of the Bible. What is your natural disposition? This will influence which Bible verses "stand out" to you the most, and upon which ones you like to dwell. What version of the Bible did you read? King James? He ordered that the scribes change some of the words in the bible to better reflect his views of his church, the church of England. They made a new version of the Bible to suit their purposes and desires. Do you believe in salvation by grace alone? You follow Martin Luther. Luther wrote some harsh things against the Jews: "On the Jews and Their Lies" "First, to set fire to their synagogues or schools … This is to be done in honor of our Lord and of Christendom, so that God might see that we are Christians …" "Second, I advise that their houses also be razed and destroyed." "Third, I advise that all their prayer books and Talmudic writings, in which such idolatry, lies, cursing, and blasphemy are taught, be taken from them." "Fourth, I advise that their rabbis be forbidden to teach henceforth on pain of loss of life and limb …" "Fifth, I advise that safe-conduct on the highways be abolished completely for the Jews. For they have no business in the countryside …" "Sixth, I advise that usury be prohibited to them, and that all cash and treasure of silver and gold be taken from them …" "Seventh, I recommend putting a flail, an ax, a hoe, a spade, a distaff, or a spindle into the hands of young, strong Jews and Jewesses and letting them earn their bread in the sweat of their brow … But if we are afraid that they might harm us or our wives, children, servants, cattle, etc., … then let us emulate the common sense of other nations such as France, Spain, Bohemia, etc., … then eject them forever from the country …" Believe in total depravity, free grace? God's sovereignty? You follow Calvin. Calvin condemned a man to death: “On October 27, 1553 John Calvin, the founder of Calvinism, had Michael Servetus, the Spanish physician, burned at the stake just outside of Geneva" Read Paul's letter to the Corinthians? You follow Paul. Read the Gospel of Luke? You follow Luke and his spin on the gospel, as opposed to Matthew. Accept the New Testament Canon? You follow the so many men who chose what should go in that. Have an English version of the Bible? Others decided how it should be translated for you, you didn't get the choice. Believe in the Trinity? - chances are you were "brainwashed" to believe in that by others, or you would be labelled a "heretic" and cast out of your mainstream denomination if you didn't. Try to prove you got it from the Bible? Catholic Church fathers perverted the text in Matthew 28:19. The original said: With one word and voice He said to His disciples: “Go, and make disciples of all nations in My Name, teaching them to observe all things whatsover I have commanded you,” — (Proof of the Gospel by Eusebius, Book III, ch 6, 132 (a), p. 152) Believe in the Nicene Creed? Constantine and early Roman Catholic fathers in 325 AD wrote that for you to believe today. Jesus never wrote or said it. Bible chapter and verse numbering - your view is skewed by this too. Sometimes it is incorrect and distorts the context. A person who knows Hebrew well might tell you. You may not have books written by Luther, Calvin, King James, on your shelves, but it is their thoughts and philosophies that influence your thinking today and those that came before. In addition to the thoughts and philosophies of your society, your family, friends, and your own random thoughts and imaginations as well. When you sit with your Bible alone and think you are getting the pure unadulterated Word of God and becoming a better theologian because the Spirit is magically giving you all of the "sound teaching" that others cannot give you, better think again.