[UntoHim]

This is going to sound like I am picking on you Gubei (and I sort of am)

At this point Gubei, you are flooding this thread. You keep making the same points over and over again. Maybe you don't realize it, but most of us have heard these same exact arguments made in the exact same manner. Many of us heard these same arguments made before you were born. Igzy has answered most of your questions/contention in a reasonable and sound manner, yet you seem to be deaf. At this point you guys are just talking AT each other and not WITH each other...and this is mostly your fault. The dialogue between you and Igzy has ceased to be a discussion. For this most part you are just blogging now.

May I suggest you start your own blog regarding "the ground of the church" and you will be welcome to put up a link to it on this thread.

Thanks for your understanding.