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Hope · 12-18-2008, 07:07 PM

Hello Brother Unto,
The idea of established elders having the one ministry of their one apostle did not develop until some time in the early-mid eighties. The idea of some sort of central ministry began to be carried out during the time of Max Rapoport. Sometimes I will mention something which the reader must pick up as a pivotal event. My story of O K city and Max R. intervening to bring whatever was going on in O K City under Anaheim’s hegemony is an example of a pivotal event.

This idea of established elders under the one ministry of their one apostle was one of the main factors that jettisoned me and so many out of that circle. If you frame you question as strictly as you have, then you have your answer. If you ask, if there was ever ever any thought that some from a local church which knew WL could integrate with another group which desired to practice the one city, one church idea, then yes there was such a common thought at one time and some did seek to practice it. The problem comes from the concept of “the Work” (singular) with its own co-workers who appoint their own elders who oversee a church which is in the circle of that worker. The problem does not come from seeking to practice the church in the city. I have too much experience with the “I am of Paul,” “I am of Apollos,” etc. “The Work” combined with “Deputy Authority” has lead to incredible leaps into the realm of illogic. “One Church, one City” as practiced by the LSM is as my good friend Igzy seems to maintain, illogical. Flush the notion of a set of elders being appointed by a recognized apostle and the descriptive practice in the New Testament begins to enter into the realm of possibility. Please note Acts 14:23, And when they had appointed elders for them in every church, having prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord in whom they had believed. The Greek word is cheirotoneo and is translated here as appoint. It means to literally stretch out your hand and to point someone out, to recognize someone. Paul and Barnabas were simply recognizing the brothers who had been manifested as more mature with a measure of leadership. Now please note Titus 1:5, For this reason I left you in Crete, that you might set in order what remains, and appoint (kathistemi) elders in every city as I directed you. Kathistemi literally means to set something on a solid base or to firmly establish. On another thread, I have read the charge being laid at the feet of the elders or leaders in the local churches that they were untrained and not qualified. Paul’s charge to Titus was more on the line of establishing, making solid etc the elders in the various places.

If you take away this whole phony notion of the elders being some kind of bosses or middle managers to carry out the work of an apostle then many problems are suddenly gone and it is very possible for two or more groups of believers to come together in oneness to glorify the Lord and allow Him to be the head over all things to the church.

Hope, Don Rutledge
A believer in Christ Jesus who is seeking to become a true disciple.

12-18-2008, 07:07 PM	#136
Hope Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Durham, North Carolina Posts: 313	Re: "Early Nee" vs. "Later Nee" Hello Brother Unto, The idea of established elders having the one ministry of their one apostle did not develop until some time in the early-mid eighties. The idea of some sort of central ministry began to be carried out during the time of Max Rapoport. Sometimes I will mention something which the reader must pick up as a pivotal event. My story of O K city and Max R. intervening to bring whatever was going on in O K City under Anaheim’s hegemony is an example of a pivotal event. This idea of established elders under the one ministry of their one apostle was one of the main factors that jettisoned me and so many out of that circle. If you frame you question as strictly as you have, then you have your answer. If you ask, if there was ever ever any thought that some from a local church which knew WL could integrate with another group which desired to practice the one city, one church idea, then yes there was such a common thought at one time and some did seek to practice it. The problem comes from the concept of “the Work” (singular) with its own co-workers who appoint their own elders who oversee a church which is in the circle of that worker. The problem does not come from seeking to practice the church in the city. I have too much experience with the “I am of Paul,” “I am of Apollos,” etc. “The Work” combined with “Deputy Authority” has lead to incredible leaps into the realm of illogic. “One Church, one City” as practiced by the LSM is as my good friend Igzy seems to maintain, illogical. Flush the notion of a set of elders being appointed by a recognized apostle and the descriptive practice in the New Testament begins to enter into the realm of possibility. Please note Acts 14:23, And when they had appointed elders for them in every church, having prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord in whom they had believed. The Greek word is cheirotoneo and is translated here as appoint. It means to literally stretch out your hand and to point someone out, to recognize someone. Paul and Barnabas were simply recognizing the brothers who had been manifested as more mature with a measure of leadership. Now please note Titus 1:5, For this reason I left you in Crete, that you might set in order what remains, and appoint (kathistemi) elders in every city as I directed you. Kathistemi literally means to set something on a solid base or to firmly establish. On another thread, I have read the charge being laid at the feet of the elders or leaders in the local churches that they were untrained and not qualified. Paul’s charge to Titus was more on the line of establishing, making solid etc the elders in the various places. If you take away this whole phony notion of the elders being some kind of bosses or middle managers to carry out the work of an apostle then many problems are suddenly gone and it is very possible for two or more groups of believers to come together in oneness to glorify the Lord and allow Him to be the head over all things to the church. Hope, Don Rutledge A believer in Christ Jesus who is seeking to become a true disciple.