Local Church Discussions - View Single Post - "God in life and nature but not in the Godhead"

Indiana · 12-03-2015, 07:58 AM

As some of you know I respect the teachings of brother Lee, but not in the way of the blending brothers, who tout him as they put the words of his ministry before the saints, and the Christian public. Elevating him and his ministry led to the building up of the ministry churches of Witness Lee, rather than, in inclusive love, building up the Body of Christ.

As brother Lee shared, "in the last few years, we have appreciated the Lord's showing us the high peak of the divine revelation. My concern is that although we may talk about the truths of the high peak, love is absent among us. If this is the case, we are puffed up, not built up. The Body builds up itself in love” (A Word of Love, 1996)

But it is not love that prevails in the Local Churches; rather, the thing brother Lee feared has prevailed, having grown and become more manifest in an atmosphere of high teachings and an attitude of being "above the rest". We will hear from a former elder in a moment who explains.

He also said, "according to my observance throughout the years, most of the co-workers have a human spirit of "power" but not love. We need a spirit of love to conquer the degradation of today's church…this is what the recovery needs". "Only love prevails", he said, and "love is the most excellent way" - it is the way to be an elder or a co-worker, and the way to contact the saints. He proclaimed that it is the way to do everything and to be anything in the church life.

Yet, in any honest analysis of "local church" history, love did not prevail even with him and has not prevailed with the blending brothers. The record is actually appalling and not surprising then to say that a people could be so rich in good teaching, yet be poor in the experience of Christ.

A former elder speaks to a core problem.

Hi Steve

Regarding Bill's [Bill Mallon] letter to W.Lee. A tragic story. What kept going through my mind was W. Lee's word of fellowship (I was there), You brothers have never learned how to fellowship (with me). To understand this whole mess, you have to try and understand the Chinese mentality, their cultural background, ie, the way they think. And don't tell me that we are in Christ, the new man, and culture has nothing to do with it. Well I'm afraid in reality, it has everything to do with most of the frustration you are dealing with.

I remember many times listening to Bro. Lee say never touch the Chinese mentality. I never quite understood what he meant. In secular language, the word inscrutable is used to describe the Chinese. To me this means, you can never pin them down or get them to admit error. You can never figure them out, and they seem sooo humble.

If you have been following the negotiations with the US and China over the downed plane, you will get a clue about them; wanting the US to apologize for their errors. Against all truth, facts, reasonableness, logic, whatever... they want us to kowtow, bend our knee, save their face, their honor, etc. etc. It is crazy!! And yet to get our men and women back we had to say some kind of political ....We're very sorry.... to make a deal.

Now transfer all this and more to the way they dealt with Bill and others and then you will know why you will go crazy trying to bring them to some kind of accountability.

When we attended the memorial service for W. L., we were amazed at the pomp, the exaltation. It was like attending a funeral for a head of state, or an emperor, or a king, Not a humble servant of the Lord!! Did Jesus have such a regal ending? Did any of the Apostles? No, all died just like their master and Lord. When we brought this up [with others], they said it was cultural and his family's wishes.

When I was reading Bill's accusations of the way the office and Phillip handled things in the S.E., I was shocked at his frankness. I said to myself, you never, never talk to Bro. Lee like that, in that tone. I surmised that Bill was thinking that surely B. Lee was not aware of all these under handed dealings and if he only knew he would take steps to clear everything up and possibly restore his standing in the S.E. NOT SO. It doesn't work that way in the Chinese culture. The one at the top is Lord. You do not question, or criticize, never, ever!! or you are through, finished. All those elders mentioned by W.L. became a threat to his controlling and they had to be subdued or removed. I think you had a little taste of this recently with the brothers in ....

The Texas brothers learned this early on and became the inner circle around Bro. Lee to defend him and explain how things work to the rest of the elders. You mentioned Ray Graver. Have you had any dealings with Ray? Do you know him? I would consider him the hardest of all the Texas bros. to touch. He has been loyal to the death from day one. He has been loyal without question to Bro. Lee and LSM for thirty-five years. What makes you think he is going to change now? Maybe you know something I don't.

Their concept of the kingdom is.....Me King....you dumb!....And this attitude is passed down the rank and file. The smallest elder acts the same way. Those who had a mind of their own have left. Those who stayed have given up their own integrity and surrendered their person to Bro. Lee and the system. This system has permeated the LC leadership. Can you change it? Can the Lord change it? Of course He will change it in HIS TIME. Judgment must first begin at the House of the Lord.

I understand about blowing the trumpet and pushing buttons; but are their ears open? Jesus said to each church in Rev.....he that has an ear let him hear! Ephesus did not repent, did not hear and lost their lampstand. Did any of the churches hear? The Catholic Ch. is still here today. Sardis is still
lukewarm, and the Lord is still on the outside of Laodicea knocking to stopped up ears! Only Philadelphia heard the Lord's word and let the Lord in.

My friendly and brotherly suggestion to you. Seek out the wounded, the oppressed, the downcast, the discouraged in your area. There must be hundreds of castaways, lost sheep needing a shepherd. Jesus left the ninety-nine and went out seeking the lost sheep. He did not convert too many
Pharisees! They had no heart nor ear to listen to him!

You have a soft shepherd's heart. Bro. Steve. I assure you these bleeding sheep will have an ear to hear you and respond to your care. Perhaps you and your wife could be a team ....

The verse in John 10:9...and will go in and go out and find pasture...has
been our experience. The Lord led us in and the Lord led us out...into the
pasture... where the Chief Shepherd of the flock is taking care of so many
who have been rejected.

Please read Ezk. 34 and Jeremiah 23:1-4, Isa. 35:3-7, 40:11, 42:1-4,
58:6-12.....for reference.

12-03-2015, 07:58 AM	#3
Indiana Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 718	Re: "God in life and nature but not in the Godhead" As some of you know I respect the teachings of brother Lee, but not in the way of the blending brothers, who tout him as they put the words of his ministry before the saints, and the Christian public. Elevating him and his ministry led to the building up of the ministry churches of Witness Lee, rather than, in inclusive love, building up the Body of Christ. As brother Lee shared, "in the last few years, we have appreciated the Lord's showing us the high peak of the divine revelation. My concern is that although we may talk about the truths of the high peak, love is absent among us. If this is the case, we are puffed up, not built up. The Body builds up itself in love” (A Word of Love, 1996) But it is not love that prevails in the Local Churches; rather, the thing brother Lee feared has prevailed, having grown and become more manifest in an atmosphere of high teachings and an attitude of being "above the rest". We will hear from a former elder in a moment who explains. He also said, "according to my observance throughout the years, most of the co-workers have a human spirit of "power" but not love. We need a spirit of love to conquer the degradation of today's church…this is what the recovery needs". "Only love prevails", he said, and "love is the most excellent way" - it is the way to be an elder or a co-worker, and the way to contact the saints. He proclaimed that it is the way to do everything and to be anything in the church life. Yet, in any honest analysis of "local church" history, love did not prevail even with him and has not prevailed with the blending brothers. The record is actually appalling and not surprising then to say that a people could be so rich in good teaching, yet be poor in the experience of Christ. A former elder speaks to a core problem. Hi Steve Regarding Bill's [Bill Mallon] letter to W.Lee. A tragic story. What kept going through my mind was W. Lee's word of fellowship (I was there), You brothers have never learned how to fellowship (with me). To understand this whole mess, you have to try and understand the Chinese mentality, their cultural background, ie, the way they think. And don't tell me that we are in Christ, the new man, and culture has nothing to do with it. Well I'm afraid in reality, it has everything to do with most of the frustration you are dealing with. I remember many times listening to Bro. Lee say never touch the Chinese mentality. I never quite understood what he meant. In secular language, the word inscrutable is used to describe the Chinese. To me this means, you can never pin them down or get them to admit error. You can never figure them out, and they seem sooo humble. If you have been following the negotiations with the US and China over the downed plane, you will get a clue about them; wanting the US to apologize for their errors. Against all truth, facts, reasonableness, logic, whatever... they want us to kowtow, bend our knee, save their face, their honor, etc. etc. It is crazy!! And yet to get our men and women back we had to say some kind of political ....We're very sorry.... to make a deal. Now transfer all this and more to the way they dealt with Bill and others and then you will know why you will go crazy trying to bring them to some kind of accountability. When we attended the memorial service for W. L., we were amazed at the pomp, the exaltation. It was like attending a funeral for a head of state, or an emperor, or a king, Not a humble servant of the Lord!! Did Jesus have such a regal ending? Did any of the Apostles? No, all died just like their master and Lord. When we brought this up [with others], they said it was cultural and his family's wishes. When I was reading Bill's accusations of the way the office and Phillip handled things in the S.E., I was shocked at his frankness. I said to myself, you never, never talk to Bro. Lee like that, in that tone. I surmised that Bill was thinking that surely B. Lee was not aware of all these under handed dealings and if he only knew he would take steps to clear everything up and possibly restore his standing in the S.E. NOT SO. It doesn't work that way in the Chinese culture. The one at the top is Lord. You do not question, or criticize, never, ever!! or you are through, finished. All those elders mentioned by W.L. became a threat to his controlling and they had to be subdued or removed. I think you had a little taste of this recently with the brothers in .... The Texas brothers learned this early on and became the inner circle around Bro. Lee to defend him and explain how things work to the rest of the elders. You mentioned Ray Graver. Have you had any dealings with Ray? Do you know him? I would consider him the hardest of all the Texas bros. to touch. He has been loyal to the death from day one. He has been loyal without question to Bro. Lee and LSM for thirty-five years. What makes you think he is going to change now? Maybe you know something I don't. Their concept of the kingdom is.....Me King....you dumb!....And this attitude is passed down the rank and file. The smallest elder acts the same way. Those who had a mind of their own have left. Those who stayed have given up their own integrity and surrendered their person to Bro. Lee and the system. This system has permeated the LC leadership. Can you change it? Can the Lord change it? Of course He will change it in HIS TIME. Judgment must first begin at the House of the Lord. I understand about blowing the trumpet and pushing buttons; but are their ears open? Jesus said to each church in Rev.....he that has an ear let him hear! Ephesus did not repent, did not hear and lost their lampstand. Did any of the churches hear? The Catholic Ch. is still here today. Sardis is still lukewarm, and the Lord is still on the outside of Laodicea knocking to stopped up ears! Only Philadelphia heard the Lord's word and let the Lord in. My friendly and brotherly suggestion to you. Seek out the wounded, the oppressed, the downcast, the discouraged in your area. There must be hundreds of castaways, lost sheep needing a shepherd. Jesus left the ninety-nine and went out seeking the lost sheep. He did not convert too many Pharisees! They had no heart nor ear to listen to him! You have a soft shepherd's heart. Bro. Steve. I assure you these bleeding sheep will have an ear to hear you and respond to your care. Perhaps you and your wife could be a team .... The verse in John 10:9...and will go in and go out and find pasture...has been our experience. The Lord led us in and the Lord led us out...into the pasture... where the Chief Shepherd of the flock is taking care of so many who have been rejected. Please read Ezk. 34 and Jeremiah 23:1-4, Isa. 35:3-7, 40:11, 42:1-4, 58:6-12.....for reference.