Quote:
Originally Posted by OBW
Let me rephrase. Are we saying that Paul had an error on his own? Or are we taking exception to what he practiced and was recorded based on the errors that others heaped upon that.
If the first, then there needs to be some indication that Paul's teaching was actually in error before we simply toss out the teaching (the actual ones in the scripture).
If the second, then I am asking whether we are avoiding something simply because error has been heaped upon Paul's teachings.
But you seem to have proposed a third alternative. The writings with the things you see as error may not be authentic in full. I'm afraid that is worse than the slippery slope. It is fully joining Lee in the "it really shouldn't be in here" category. I don't know how we go there in this forum.
If we are told to do X and Y (bad) results, are we sure that we did X? Or did we do X plus A, B, C, Z, etc.? Did we really do X? Have we isolated the issue to X caused Y, or are we simply noting that X, among other things, was done and Y, among other things resulted. That does not equate to causality.
And you seem to have an agenda to deconstruct any kind of leadership. I'm not sure scripture supports that.
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I have an agenda to deconstruct any kind of TRADITIONAL Christian leadership. I've never seen it purely demonstrated as in the scriptures.
I ask a further question as to whether the leadership as defined by Paul was actually the authentic expression of the Lord's life-flow in His holy assembly or just a repackaging of his Jewish background. You can characterize this as "fully joining Lee" but clearly Lee and the Blended Brothers would fully join with
you as opposed to me on this point.
Finally, my starting point is to try to salvage Paul's doctrine from the ravages of Christian history if that is at all possible, which is why I'm discussing it here. If there is a way to have the proper practice of Paul's teachings concerning leadership, we need to stop interpreting Paul with all of our religious baggage. I admit I do have concerns about Paul's appointment of elders as well but all I'm solid upon is rejection of the LC and general Christianity hierarchies as incompatible with the glorification of God in the assemblies. If you want to pose the further question of whether leadership and life are identical or incompatible, that is interesting but not my topic.
I am not opposed to leaders. I am opposed to religious leadership structures. I'm presuming that genuine leaders express the life element without an imposed hierarchy, which is all I've ever seen. I question whether all of Paul's teachings regarding leaders are purely of life or if they are influenced by religion in some ways, as some of his teaching and practice seem to have been. Is his every word on these matters the infallible word of God or has he expressed his opinion not the Lord's commandment. In this I do admit to removing from a slavishly superimposed traditional interpretation of scriptures which gives birth to hierarchy after hierarchy, slippery slope or not. I also realize this may not be to everyone's taste.
It's OK, though, OBW. Hope seems to have studied this extensively, gets what I'm saying and he may state these things more clearly than I am yet able. I'm asking questions not giving answers, student rather than teacher.
And in that context, let me pose this as a question directly to you: is it possible that Paul was ever in error? Do you think Paul was in error in regard to his Jewish ceremonial practices in Jerusalem? Do you think Paul was correct in forbidding the sisters to speak in the assembly? You seem to want to characterize my queries as ill-purposed for some reason and associated with the Dreaded Church of Lee but I think my inquiry is healthy and I believe that the Word of God is strong enough to withstand my pitiful and faithful questioning.
God is not afraid of questions asked honestly.