Quote:
Originally Posted by aron
I agree that this is appropriate to a Nee/Lee discussion. I read some of the Driscoll/Carpenter stories on the internet, including interviews with the principals, and it was readily apparent that they could only talk about 3 things: Me, me, and me. It looked like the kingdom of self writ large, and it's rather instructive how many people climbed on board before the whole thing imploded.
Here's a snippet on Driscoll:
http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-...s-hill-church/
Driscoll would snowball people with charm, and bully those who wavered. Those who couldn't get on the Driscoll bus got exiled. Members were told to avoid them. And Carpenter, if possible, seems even more extreme. Self-absorbed and narcissistic. These guys shouldn't have been leading a Bible study, much less a church. And the fact that they got so big before they self-destructed, as Dave said, tells us a lot about ourselves as well. We'd do well to look in the mirror, here. These examples, and these stories are about us, and our experiences, as well. |
Of course there are parallels. All of these individuals to include WL/WN had exponential growth in their following in their early days. They all hit the brick wall at one point for various reasons although Ron Carpenter's problem was his wife's affair with another guy for 5 years so who knows what that is all about. Of course what drives me crazy is when Ron Carpenter says he is an apostle. I can agree in a general description of that word but he is not saying he is a pastor/minister etc---no, Apostle---of course self-anointed just like WL---well, excuse me, I'm sorry, God appointed them Apostles just like Jesus appointed the 12 disciples and Paul.
Of course, time will tell how both driscoll and carpenter play out since they are both relatively young. WN was a remarkable Christian in his efforts to go against the prevailing ideas of a "church" and Christian life. In that sense you can't compare Nee to Driscoll or Carpenter except that the limelight affected them all. And as Aron as noted, in the end they went to me, me, me. Obviously Lee was willing to cover up major problems with his son and was an authoritarian from the get go. Of course, Steve Jobs was a megalomaniac and screwed up his personal life until the end in his efforts to change the world. But he wasn't a Christian and wasn't transformed whereas all of these guys received Christ but still went off the deep end---again, Carpenter is still a work in progress but this apostle thing is problematic.
This is kind of a side remark but it is remarkable that over the last 2000 years there has been no Abraham, no Moses, no David, no Solomon in the Christian world. Constantine, an emperor promoted the Council of Nicea in 325AD and what is often not stated is that moment was the continuation and promotion of what would be the RCC. At a later council Pope Urban II in 1095 started the 9 crusades. This was not changed until 1517 when Martin Luther posted his 95 thesis'. Of course Luther was a turning point. Also, all Biblical scripture has ended and all has been written. During the entire history of Israel scripture was being written. It has stopped, ended, done, world without end. We're all just waiting for the Second Coming....nothing else to do. We are going to see more Driscolls, Carpenters, WN/WL---because Christians have had 2000 years to develop and someone is always out there willing to give hope because Christianity is without direction. Each denomination and movement are there to maintain themselves. They are just going through the motions with emotion.
I don't know if anyone ever read the "Burnt Over District". It was an area of NY which was heavily Evangelized in the late 1800s until people just became so hardened it was difficult to preach the gospel in that area. The only thing that can be done today is try and expand Christianity to China and South America etc.