Quote:
Originally Posted by aron
What I am working toward is the idea of the disciples, and "what did they know and when did they know it" in the record, both in the Gospels, Acts of Apostles, and beyond.
... John the Baptist is not only the forerunner of Jesus, but also the first "discipler" of some of them, including Andrew, Peter's brother, and quite possibly also John the son of Zebedee. So I am attempting to discern their mindset, their conceptual "package", that they had as they entered into fellowship. What did they see and when did they see it? What were they blind to and why? And when did this blindness leave them, as they authored the "divine record"?
"I have yet many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now..." ~John 16:12
I am trying to critically examine the Spirit's guiding the disciples (verse 13)into all the reality (truth, understanding) of who Jesus was, and what His words meant. I think that revelation is a slow process of accretion, of sifting data, of careful reflection.
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I was reconsidering these thoughts recently as I was reading Mark's gospel.
I wonder what these young men were looking for. "We have found the Messiah" (Jo. 1:41). These men were already seeking, pre-Jesus; some of them were disciples of John the Baptist. What was their concept of the Messiah, and how did it change? And how slowwwwly did it change? Look at the slooowww process of gaining awareness, as evinced in Mark.
Chapter 9: Peter and James and John see "the kingdom of God coming in power", i.e. the transfiguration, vv 1-8. On the way down the mountain Jesus says "Do not relate this to anyone, until the Son of Man has risen from the dead"
Verse 10: "And they kept the word, discussing among themselves what rising from the dead was." Then they (Peter and James and John) asked Jesus concerning Elijah coming first (verse 11). Jesus reminds them how "...it is written that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be counted as nothing...but I tell you that Elijah has come." vv 12 - 13
Then go to chapter 10, verse 32. They are all going to Jerusalem, and the followers are "amazed and afraid" (RcV). Everybody knows that some kind of big event is coming forthwith. But what? And who, exactly, is the Messiah? My sense is that fallen human concepts, with the commensurate "good intentions", filtered out the vast majority of reality that was occurring before their very eyes.
Verse 33: "Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be delivered to the chief priests and to the scribes. And they will condemn Him to death and deliver Him to the Gentiles, and they will mock Him and spit at Him and scourge Him, and they will kill Him. And after three days He will rise."
At this very moment James and John try to split their "cabal" with Peter from 3 to 2. "And James and John, the sons of Zebedee, came to Him saying "Grant us to sit, one at your right hand and one on Your left, in Your glory." The others become disgruntled. (vv 35 - 41)
Imagine a general leading his troops into battle. The night before the contest, he gives a talk. "Men, we are hopelessly outnumbered. The outcome of this struggle will be my death. You will be broken and scattered. Any questions"
"Yes, chief. When's the victory parade? And can I hold the banner?"
When you read the record, and look away from the words of the Savior, to the words, and reactions of the followers, and you start to see the magnitude of the degree to which they didn't "get it", it is astonishing.
Which leads me to 2 questions:
1.When John was penning his books, Revelation and Gospel and Epistles, many years later, when the original participants were gone, and even many second generation disciples (Paul, e.g.) had passed, and the "leaven" was clearly manifest in the assemblies, how much did he try to address this continuous peril of ignorant good intentions?
2. I wonder, today, how much we still don't "get it"?