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Originally Posted by SpeakersCorner
I find myself getting too mental when I participate too heavily in forums.
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Unfortunately I enjoy thinking and then inflicting the general public with my thoughts, such as they are. Usually I've remained above the fray. Everyone has their own opinion, I have mine. Why quarrel? But I do see a very different picture in Scriptures than the "lonely Triune God" in my mind, and wanted to critique it from my perspective. Critiques, especially repeated ones, tend to slide too easily into sharp rebukes, so I apologize and soldier on, because the discussion does seem to be warranted.
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Originally Posted by SpeakersCorner
I do believe John 12:24 provides us a window into God's heart. Here he was, incarnated, amongst his creation but not recognized, not understood, not appreciated, and definitely not expanded into humanity other than the one body he inhabited. And he knew that, unless he go to the cross and die, he would remain unexpanded, a solitary God-man. Hence his reflections in this verse. In a way, it's a very sad verse to me.
In verse 27 he says, "Now My soul has become troubled; and what shall I say, ‘Father, save Me from this hour’?" Clearly this dying business is difficult for him, as is dying to self difficult for us. But if he doesn't do it, he remains alone.
It just seems so achingly clear to me.
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Ok, John 12:24 provides a window into God's heart. But if you try to read God's situation into it, I think it fails miserably. Look at the last sentence you wrote: "If he doesn't do it, he remains alone". What does the word "alone" mean? Jesus said in John 12:24, "He abides alone". Jesus was speaking of his relations with his disciples. Even when he was with them, Jesus was alone. Again and again, he had to call them for what they were: children of Satan. "Get away from Me, you evildoers". Jesus was surrounded by evildoers. So yes there was indeed alienation and estrangement.
But Jesus wasn't alone. He wasn't lonely. He was only alone, singular, as it pertained to the disciples. He needed to bring them to where he was. So death, for him, was the choice. "Greater love hath no man than this, that he lay down his life for his friends".
Other than that, Jesus was quite connected to God, who's connected to everything. So the image of the lonely bachelor God, somehow hovering behind the narrative, is simply absurd. It's a simplification that doesn't even help a third-grader. It simply misses too much. So I don't like it. Yes, that is antipathy. Sorry, I'll own it.
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Originally Posted by SpeakersCorner
I really don't understand the antipathy so many here feel towards this teaching. Think of it: the Bible begins with a singular couple and ends with a corporate one. In the middle, the very heart of the Bible, is a love poem describing a king wooing a country lass. Truly, marital love must be the perfect metaphor behind what God is doing.
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This is a human-centric view. Understandable, because we are humans. But the world is a little bit bigger than we are.