Quote:
Originally Posted by Igzy
The only thing that makes our lives real are the genuine experiences of Christ we have.
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That is one of those things that when said seems impossible to refute. But rather than refute it, please show how and why it is correct. I know that we have been taught stuff like that over the years. And it just sounds so spiritual. But where does it come from?
You work your logic backward. You end by saying "if you are going to try to sell me on the idea there is a better way to participate in life than to experience it then you're going to have tough time with that one." And I would agree. But the only way to not experience life is to not be there — to be dead. Literally. Yes, we are promised a lot through the life of Christ. But "what is real" is not just Christ and spiritual stuff. It is all of the life of a person in Christ. You don't have to chase after something "spiritual" to "keep it real" as some like to say.
No one said that there is no experience. But the experience is not simply "experience of Christ" unless you have redefined all experience for the Christian as being experience of Christ. And if that is what you are doing, then it works. And is simultaneously almost meaningless because it is just a semi-private way of saying that living is an experience of Christ.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Igzy
Christ fills me with joy. He makes me want to jump and shout. I like that. So sue me. OBW might think his longsuffering "obedience" model is the best thing going. But if it was I'd be picking up from him that he wants to jump and shout, too.
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And with that you turn life into jumping and shouting and your stature in this discussion goes down a notch or two.
And I have a better understanding of the person who had to throw cold water at some other Christians that weren't busy jumping and shouting in a recent post.
Your idea of Christ as life is mired in the inner-life theology of feelings. It is just a step away from the charismatic forms that chase feelings, and the miraculous. That need a sign to believe that they are still in sync with Christ. You are convinced that not jumping and shouting means grumpy.
And your attack on anything that does not agree with your theology is not displaying any more joy than anyone else. I did not attack you (to start with). But you have managed to characterize me over my positions. Now I am starting to do the same for you. You are arguing in favor of something you can't even defend other than to claim it must be so.
Our connection with what is real is to live this life as it comes in its mundane and troublesome way as believers in Christ who are hungering and thirsting for righteousness, meek, poor in spirit, turning the other cheek, loving neighbor as self.
I can assure you that I am not grumpy about any of this. That is your characterization. And you really don't want to be involved in this discussion other than as a thorn. So either you think it is still important, yet won't actually engage the subject matter, or you don't and should take the advice I gave early on and just let it go. I think you are looking foolish just insisting that this need for experience in a way that is not hardly hinted at in the Bible is so important, especially with a label that is also not found — even sort of. The Bible is too blunt, over and over, about the obedience you virtually dismiss in favor of something it doesn't say. Even most of Paul's spiritual writing was factual underpinning to support whichever church's taking action to live right in some way. The spiritual stuff was not a challenge to get through so that they could do it. It was fact that gave the way. In Peter's words, it would be the stuff we already have so that we can live godly lives.