[Peter Debelak]

Originally Posted by YP0534

You are right, aron.

These minimal standards are so broadly applicable to all believers that they don't really help determine anything at all. It is a very good question as to why Paul would bother to articulate that an overseer must not be one given to violence and must be holy. Only non-brutal faithful (male) believers need apply. Huh. I wouldn't really think there would be any question about appointment of brutal, unholy men to an "office" in God's own assembly, but, then again, maybe some in Ephesus were into that sort of thing or something.

This reveals that the REAL "qualification" must come from elsewhere.

I believe Lee taught that it was "revelation" that was the basis of this sort of thing but I'd like to continue to dig into the issue and see if the Bible itself doesn't yield some additional light on the topic. Paul clearly promoted his own apostleship as based in revelation but does this necessarily translate to anyone who claims some crazy revelation? Clearly not. How do we test and approve or reject the revelations?

Paul wrote that the Jerusalem above is free, who is our mother. (Gal. 4:26) I think maybe the New Jerusalem is more like a Waldorf salad than a mommy. OK, so the Waldorf salad recipe can't be found in the Old Testament, but aside from the Book of Revelation, where else can I see that there's a city in the heavens someplace? Where'd Paul get that kind of stuff and then commend us to believe it? And, more to the point, what do I do about THAT guy and what HE says God showed him? Is my revelation of the Waldorf salad really THAT inconsistent with the New Testament revelation of God's eternal purpose? Lee taught that Christ is the reality of every positive thing in the universe, right? Does that stop short of the Waldorf salad? Who says so?

Or maybe revelation and "church offices" have no relationship one with another?

YP -

I think I get the gist of your post, but this uncultured fellow needs a little help with the Waldorf salad analogy....

Peter