[Thankful Jane]

Originally Posted by Toledo

2) "{I}sn’t such serving of someone else other than God an act of idolatry?"

Originally Posted by Toledo

Idolatry has to do with the worship of idols. The "such serving" to which you refer would seem to be more of an act of disobedience. Eve ate an apple (whatever...), submitting to the serpent against God's word, yet the bible never calls her an idolater.

I'm not saying that you haven't put your finger on some very serious offenses in the local churches. Rather that calling it idolatry is forcing a definition that simply does not fit. As much as Cinderella's step-sisters tried, they could not get their feet into Prince Charming's glass slipper.

At the beginning of this thread djohnson kept referring to "Leeaholisim", a made up term, and Matt corrected him -- there is no such thing as "Leeaholism". Unfortunately, calling the problem idolatry doesn't fit any better (then insisting that everyone who ever met with the local churches bought into idolatry fits even less).

Dear Toledo,

I am planning to spend less time on the forum for awhile. During the past two weeks God has shown me that I need to redirect my focus for a period of time. I didn’t want to leave without responding about idolatry as I said I would, so here goes.

I choose to use this word/concept because it is biblical, is widely used in the Bible, and because it holds the possibility of grabbing our attention. I think we are not that different from God's people who have come before us, whom He often characterized as hard of hearing.

The following is my basic understanding of idolatry, as it applies to us as believers. It is not simplistic. It has come mostly from spending time with the Lord, reading His Word, and my experiences. I am not asking for, or expecting, agreement with my understanding. I share this because it has greatly helped me in my walk with Jesus and because I said I would. Maybe it will be helpful to some.

“Hallowed be thy name” has new meaning for me. I see now very clearly that the law of God’s house is holiness (Eze. 43:12) and that His name is to be held in the highest regard. If I am sinful and use His name loosely, I pollute it. If I am bowing to someone else’s dictates and still using His name, I am using it in vain.

The main point of what I am going to share is this: I believe that God views our deliberate obedience to voices/words/teachings other than His own as spiritual fornication. In other words, idolatry equals spiritual fornication and spiritual fornication equals idolatry. This sin began in the Garden of Eden and has continued to the present.

So to be very clear, when I speak of idolatry, I am not speaking of setting up a piece of stone or wood on an altar or making some kind of molten image and then bowing down before it. I am speaking of the very large picture of idolatry which is painted in the Old Testament that I believe is for our learning as Christians. In the Bible it is clear that God considers Himself to be husband to His people. He is jealous over His relationship with us as His people and expects us likewise to cling jealously to only Him.

It still holds true in the New Testament age that we are not to have other gods before Him. If I begin to practice bowing down and serving another god, which means I decide to submit to someone or something other than God Himself (even if I do so in under deception), then I am guilty of idolatry and of spiritual fornication. Rom 7 says that we become the servants of whoever we obey. According to this, if we walk in disobedience to God as a result of walking in obedience to another, we break the first commandment.

You may say that idolatry only begins with commandment #2 when we fashion something with our hands which we bow down and serve. I would say that when we reach that point, we are simply manifesting evidence that we have broken commandment #1. Idolatry starts in the heart and ends up manifested in something tangible. The LSM publishing company with its fully formed idol of “One Publication” today would be an example of such a visible manifestation of idolatry.

I believe that God sees having any other god as a violation of our relationship with Him in the same way that we view violation of a marriage relationship by fornication/adultery. In Jeremiah 3 God gave Israel (northern kindom) a bill of divorcement because of her adulteries. This, among other passages, shows clearly that He considered himself as the husband of the children of Israel.

Strong’s says:
zânâh
zaw-naw'
A primitive root (highly fed and therefore wanton); to commit adultery (usually of the female, and less often of simple fornication, rarely of involuntary ravishment); figuratively to commit idolatry (the Jewish people being regarded as the spouse of Jehovah): - (cause to) commit fornication, X continually, X great, (be an, play the) harlot, (cause to be, play the) whore, (commit, fall to) whoredom, (cause to) go a-whoring, whorish.

In the New Testament, fornication is figuratively the same as idolatry (see Gk. for the word “fornication”). The following verses show that there is a connection between our spirit and what we do with our body. If we commit fornication, our spirit becomes defiled and filthy and we lose fellowship with God. Bowing down to another god has the same affect on our spiritual condition. God does not hold us guiltless but considers that we hate Him (commandment #2).

1Co 6:15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of a harlot? God forbid.

1Co 6:16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to a harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.

1Co 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

I Cor. 6:17 with the word “joined” was used by Lee to support his “mingling” teaching and gave us the idea that this particular joining could not be undone. However, this word actually means in Gk. to glue, that is, (passively or reflexively) to stick (figuratively): - cleave, join (self), keep company. In the O. T. the corresponding word was “cleave” as in “cleave unto Him” (meaning cling or adhere to Him). I Co. 6:17 can more rightly be understood to mean that he that is adhered to or glued to the Lord is one spirit. We can become dirty and lose our adherence to Him. Just as in a marriage the relationship (joining) can be broken (put asunder) by unfaithfulness, so can we become separated experientially from our relationship with the Lord.

Mat 19:6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder [separate].

This warning shows that what God joins together can be put asunder. A similar thought is found in the following verse. It shows how God views Christ’s relationship with us. He is adhering to us and gluing Himself to us. We are to respond in kind and cling to Him.

Eph 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined [Gk: proskollao – to glue to; to adhere to] unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Christ died for us so that we could have spiritual communication/fellowship with God in a state of holiness which became ours by faith in the redemptive work of Jesus Christ. This intimate relationship between Christ and the church is a great mystery. Whenever, as Christians, we become contaminated by fornication (or by idolatry, obeying commands of others that bring us into disobedience to God), we lose fellowship with the holy God. He does not stop loving us, and works to bring us to repentance. If we exercise our spirit to pray while we are in an unrepentant state, we will not contact the holy God, and we can be snared into spiritual communication with the devil and fall prey to his wiles. The Bible makes it clear that we cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of devils.

1Co 6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

1Co 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

1Co 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

Paul said that as believers we were espoused to one husband, Jesus Christ. He feared that we would be seduced.

2Co 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

2Co 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled [seduced] Eve through his subtlety, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

The first seduction took place in the garden of Eden. It took place through the mind becoming corrupted by means of listening to the deceiving words of someone other than God.

Paul realized that seduction of believers came through the words of men who appeared to be apostles of Christ and ministers of righteousness. Just as Satan came in the garden of Eden as one bearing “light,” and corrupted Eve’s mind by communicating with her, he continues to do the same thing today. He best accomplishes this objective in a systematic way through the teachings of those who appear to be ministers of righteousness, but who are actually not.

2Co 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

2Co 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming [fashioning] themselves into the apostles of Christ.

2Co 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

2Co 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Jesus told us repeatedly to keep his words, his commandments. He promised us that if we did this He and the Father would come and make their home with us. If, instead, we keep the words of others which lead us into disobedience to God’s words, we are allowing someone else to interfere in our new covenant relationship with God. I believe that God sees this kind of violation as seduction or fornication or idolatry.

Eph 5:6 (CLV) Let no one be seducing you through empty words because of these things the indignation of God is coming on the sons of stubbornness.

The New Covenant relationship is one of intimacy between God and each believer. It is far superior to the Old Covenant relationship between God and the children of Israel as shown in Hebrews. In the New Covenant, there is one mediator between us and God, Jesus, and no one should supersede His place in each of our lives or come between us and Him in any way. We have been betrothed to Him. Paul makes it clear that such superseding can take place through “words” or teachings spoken by others in order to seduce us away from the personal, intimate relationship we have with God as our God. (Only as we have an intimate relationship with Him first and foremost can we have a close, intimate, fellowship with one another in the church.)

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

Note that men who give heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils speak lies as if they were truth (in hypocrisy). They have seared consciences. They lord it over people and use assumed “authority” in their teachings to control others (note that the words “forbidding” and “commanding” describe an exercise of “authority”). This is all too familiar.

In Revelation 17, the woman sitting on the scarlet colored beast having seven heads and ten horns is called “Mystery Babylon the Great, the Mother of the harlots [Gk: idolaters] and abominations [idolatries] of the Earth.” The kingdoms of the earth commit fornication with her. This shows that God considers such fornications to be more than something physical between human beings. There are spiritual fornications between the great woman and the evil world rulers. It is clear that the RCC today matches this woman, as do all religious systems (her daughters) who are like her. There are many who are not literally bowing down to stone or wooden idols, yet they are practicing idolatry by walking stubbornly in disobedience to Him and His Word and at the same time using His name. They inadvertently become involved with evil spiritual powers while praying and vainly using the name of Jesus. They become involved with another Jesus, another spirit.

This is a brief overview of what I believe. I think it is much safer to consider that the warnings of the O.T. concerning serving other gods have applicability to us and not just dismiss them as only referring to pagans who bow to blocks of wood or stone.

I have been convicted that God is a jealous God and that He is jealous over my New Covenant relationship with Him. I am to be likewise jealous over my relationship with Him and to remain faithful to Him. I am not to let others interfere with that most intimate and precious relationship for any reason.

Today, just as in Paul’s day, there are men who come as Christian leaders and fashion themselves as ones sent by God bearing light. They use their “light” to impress, attract, and seduce people to come under their control. They usurp the role of God in their involvement with other believers. They expect submission to their words, teachings, and instructions and believe this is their God-given prerogative. This phenomenon among believers is nothing less than the mystery of iniquity (lawlessness) that was already at work in Paul’s day. We should flee from such people.

We are the bride of Christ, espoused to him as a chaste virgin. We are to guard our relationship with Him jealously as we look to His soon coming. The Bible says that what God has joined together (yoked together) let no man separate. I have been set free to treasure Jesus and His Words and to reject the subtle, deceiving words of men. I do not have to give heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons that come through men, “commanding” and “forbidding” and expecting me to obey their “authoritative” interpretations, teachings, and instructions.

I have given some thought to the repeated accusation on this thread that I believe “all” in the Local Churches are guilty of idolatry. No one has yet shown me where I said this. I have decided to make this very plain: I do not know who is guilty. That is something each person must determine for themselves. But, sadly, most in the LC don’t even know to ask the question. It is for that reason that I have spoken so strongly. I want to provoke those who read here to think seriously about this.

The simple truth is that it really doesn’t matter what I think or you or anyone else thinks about idolatry. What matters is what is true and what He judges to be the case.

Shouldn't we ask something like this:

"Lord, how do You view my relationship with You? Am I holding to or adhering to beliefs and practices which I received from other men that bring me into conflict with You? I am asking You to shine Your light on me and show me my case in your eyes so I can repent and be set free from anything that offends you, hurts my relationship with You, and hinders my prayers and effectiveness as a believer."

Also, if other men support us financially in our service to God, wouldn't it be wise to consider praying something to this effect:

"Lord, please judge me in the matter of money, especially as it relates to my serving You. I do not want to be found at Your coming to have been serving another master out of fear of my and my family’s needs not being met."

We are called to submit first and foremost to God and to look to Him for everything. We are expected to give way or yield to one another when truth or principle is not at stake. Where it is, our submission not only hurts us, it hurts others. As believers we need to recognize the difference between submitting to God and to something that appears to be of God. The line drawn is determined by the Holy Word understood under the enlightenment of the Holy Spirit. If the living One and the living Book forbid something, I must not do it, regardless of what any “minister of righteousness” says.

For this reason, I am responsible to know the Words of God and also to learn for myself to hear the Spirit speak. I will be without excuse in that day because as a participant in the wonderful New Covenant relationship with God which is mine by His amazing grace, I have been given His words to treasure, and I have been given His Holy Spirit to write them on my heart.

Thankful Jane