[YP0534]

OK, here's at least part of the math that's been escaping me to date.

I found this somewhere online:

Bible Question:Who are the elders? Are they pastors?

Bible Answer:There are two types of official leaders in a church. The Apostle Paul speaks to both of them in Philippians 1:1 when he says,

Paul and Timothy, bond-servants of Christ Jesus, to all the saints in Christ Jesus who are in Philippi, including the overseers and deacons . . . (NASB) Philippians 1:1

In God's plan for the church there are overseers and deacons. But what is an overseer, elder, or a deacon?

Overseers. It is interesting to note, the church leaders are spoken to last and not first. We see the overseers and deacons together again in 1 Timothy 3. 1 Timothy 3 is a chapter devoted to the qualifications of the church leaders. The overseers and deacons are included and no other type of leader is mentioned.

Elders and Overseers. But what is an overseer? The first clue comes in the book of Titus where we discover that elders are also overseers. These two words refer to the same person.

For this reason I left you in Crete, that you should set in order the things that are lacking, and appoint elders in every city as I commanded you . . . a bishop must be blameless . . . (NASB) Titus 1:5, 7

The Greek word for elder is PRESBUTEROS, and the Greek word for overseer is EPISKOPOUS. The word "elder" refers to the leader's character while "overseer" refers to his oversight duties or responsibilities. An overseer is an elder.

Elders and Pastors. In 1 Peter we find another connection between elders and pastors.

Therefore, I exhort the elders among you, as your fellow elder and witness of the sufferings of Christ, and a partaker also of the glory that is to be revealed, shepherd the flock of God among you, exercising oversight not under compulsion . . . (NASB) 1 Peter 5:1-2

Peter is speaking to the elders when he encourages them to pastor or shepherd the flock. The Greek word for pastor or shepherd is POIMAINO. We also find that these men are to oversee the church. An elder is the person who has two type of responsibilities: oversight and shepherding.

We find EPISKOPOUS, PRESBUTEROS, and POIMAINO used again in Acts 20.

And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus and called to him the elders of the church. . . . Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. (NASB) Acts 20:17, 28

Acts 20:17 tells us that the apostle Paul called for the elders (PRESBUTEROS) of Ephesus. Upon arriving in Ephesus, Paul meets these men. While speaking with them (verse 28), he tells them that the Holy Spirit has made them overseers (EPISKOPOUS) and commands them “to shepherd” or pastor (POIMAINO) the congregation.

Elders = Overseers = Pastors. These three terms are used for the same individual. Elders are bishops who are also pastors. Those who oversee are to be elder in spiritual maturity. In the church no single man should be called the pastor for all of the elders are pastors.

Conclusion:All of the elders are pastors. All of the elders are overseers. All of the overseers are pastors. A pastor is an overseer who is an elder!

Add to this another long quote and I think that about covers the waterfront:

Elder in the Bible

Terms
The term elders is used in various ways in the Bible. In many instances, particularly in the Old Testament, it has reference to the older men in a tribe, usually entrusted with the governmental affairs. Their age and experience made their counsel sought often. This was not necessarily a priesthood calling. Genesis 50:7, Ruth 4:2, Matthew 15:2, and Acts 4:5 are examples of this usage. There were ordained elders in the Melchizedek Priesthood in Old Testament times, as in Exodus 24:9-11 and Numbers 11:16.

There are three different words used synonymously in the New Testament to refer to the office of elder. In 1 Timothy and Titus, Paul drafts nearly identical lists of qualifications for elder and overseer, while Peter draws all three concepts together in one passage: "Therefore, I exhort the elders among you... shepherd the flock of God among you, exercising oversight..." (1 Peter 5:1-2). Luke uses the terms elder, overseer and shepherd interchangeably in Acts 20.

presbuteros
(Greek word #4245 in Strong's)

This is the most commonly used word in the New Testament with regard to the twelve apostles, the quorum of seventy, or others acting under their apostolic authority. It refers 28 times in the Gospels and Acts to the members of the Jewish Sanhedrin and 12 times in Revelation to the representatives of the redeemed people of God. The remaining 19 times the word is employed in Acts and the Epistles, it identifies a unique group of leaders in the church. The term simply means advanced in age, but in the first century context indicates a rank or office among Jews as members of the ruling council, among Greeks as those who those who managed public affairs and administered justice, and among Christians as those who presided over the local assemblies. While no specific age is given, this term emphasizes the character of the elder and implies maturity, dignity, experience, and honor.[1]

episkopos
(Greek word #1985 in Strong's)

This is a common word for in the Greek culture for any official who acted as a superintendent, manager, controller, curator, guardian or ruler. It occurs only five times in the New Testament, once referring to Christ (1 Peter 2:25) and the other four times to church leaders. The term emphasizes the function of an elder as exercising authority and supervision "by divine placement, initiative and design".[2]

poimen
(Greek word #4166 in Strong's)

This word simply means shepherd. It is applied only once in the noun form and three times in the verb form in the New Testament in the context of church leaders. The term emphasizes the heart attitude of an elder as one who tends, feeds, guides, protects and cares for his flock.[3]

Mandate
Together, the New Testament writers mention elders, overseers and shepherds in reference to church leadership more than twenty-five times in the Gospels and the Epistles. The basis, selection, office, character, functions, attitude and qualifications of elders are laid out and the pattern established early and often. Strauch writes, "In fact, the New Testament offers more instruction regarding elders than on any other important church subjects such as the Lord's Supper, the Lord's Day, baptism or spiritual gifts".[4]

For example, Acts 11:30; 15:2,4,6,22-23; 16:4; and 21:18 demonstrate that elders had a significant role in the Jerusalem church and the Jerusalem council. In reference to churches in Antioch, Pisidia, Iconium, Lystra and Derbe, Acts 14:23 demonstrates Paul's pattern of appointing elders as a key step in organizing a new church. Paul spoke directly to the elders in Acts 20:17 and warned them in 20:28 to "(b)e on guard for (them)selves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made (them) overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood."

Each of these passages points to an early understanding that God's intent for church leadership was by a plurality of elders. Instruction about elders is given to the churches in 1 Thessalonians 5:12-13; 1 Timothy 3:1-7,10 and 5:17-22,24-25; Titus 1:5-9; Hebrews 13:17; James 5:14; and 1 Peter 5:5. Instruction is given to elders about churches in 1 Thessalonians 5:13; James 5:14; and 1 Peter 5:1-5. In the majority of the references the word for elders is plural and word for church is singular, indicating a very clear directive that the church should be governed by a plurality of elders.

Qualifications

Blameless as a steward of God; above reproach (1 Timothy 3:2; Titus 1:6-7)
Husband of one wife; a one-woman man (1 Timothy 3:2, Titus 1:6)
Temperate, sober, vigilant (1 Timothy 3:2)
Sober-minded, prudent (1 Timothy 3:2, Titus 1:8)
Of good behavior; orderly, respectable (1 Timothy 3:2)
Given to hospitality (1 Timothy 3:2; Titus 1:8)
Apt to teach; able to teach; he can exhort believers and refute false teaching (1 Timothy 3:2; Titus 1:9)
Not given to wine (1 Timothy 3:3, Titus 1:7)
Not violent, not pugnacious (1 Timothy 3:3, Titus 1:7)
Patient, moderate, forbearing, gentle (1 Timothy 3:3)
Not a brawler; uncontentious; not soon angry or quick tempered (1 Timothy 3:3, Titus 1:7)
Not covetous; not a lover of money; not greedy of base gain (1 Timothy 3:3, Titus 1:7)
Rules well his own house; his children are faithful, not accused of rebellion to God (1 Timothy 3:4, Titus 1:7)
Not a novice; not a new convert (1 Timothy 3:6)
Has a good report or reputation with outsiders (1 Timothy 3:7)
Not self-willed (Titus 1:7)
A lover of what is good (Titus 1:7)
Just, fair (Titus 1:8)
Holy, devout (Titus 1:8)
Self-Controlled (Titus 1:8)

Duties
Shepherd the flock, setting an example for all (1 Peter 5:1-3)
Feed and care for the church (Acts 20:28; 1 Thessalonians 5:12)
Teach and preach sound doctrine (1 Timothy 5:17; Titus 1:9)
Rule and lead (I Timothy 5:17; Hebrews 13:17; cf. 1 Thessalonians 5:12; 1 Timothy 3:2,4)
Train and ordain others (Acts 14:23; 1 Timothy 4:14; 5:22; Titus 1:5)
Refute and rebuke the insubordinate (Titus 1:9, 13)
Keep watch over and give account to God for the spiritual well-being of the church (Hebrews 13:17)
Serve clothed in Christ-like humility (1 Peter 5:3-5)

I feel the strong need to understand the full scope of the issue in classical terms before I am able to seriously consider any particular part or selection of verses.

If anyone feels there is something omitted here or inadequately presented perhaps, please comment. It looks about "right" to me as far as it goes. Which is all that I'm saying. That this fairly makes the case for the traditional practice of having an "office of elder" in the assemblies.

I'll be getting into it in detail as time affords opportunity. I note initially the handling of 1 Tim. 5:17 contrasted with Peter's earlier post on this verse. I don't think for an instant that all of this edifice will crumble under our scrutiny but I would like to at least reduce it to that part that will not fall.

To the extent that there is an "office of elder" in the Bible then let us learn and practice that and not merely some traditional teachings and practices concerning it. I have never studied this matter before. One day, some men told me that they were "the elders" and that is all I knew about it. I received them as ones over me until such time as they rejected me. I submitted to their rejection and did not even attempt to return to their company until many years later when I attempted a reconcilliation. Even today I recognize them as the elders of that church.

But since I know that the Local Church has issues, especially with regard to its leadership, I am inclined to discover whether those who were stated to be elders over me were truly appointed by God's will to a position of power which gave them the ground to reject me. Practically speaking, I somewhat doubt it. But my consideration here is merely the Bible basis for their believing so, not whether one can be an elder and make mistakes, of course. But whether and how one can even be an elder in the first place.

In my experience, to rise up against an elder is not looked kindly upon, to say the least. Even if he's behaved badly. But as I understand it, there is only a scriptural mechanism for correction of a single errant elder. The New Testament doesn't really seem to contemplate a body of elders in agreement with erroneous or abusive behavior. It has seemed to me that the only response to that situation is to leave them to their practices. If they declare that this is how things are done in their church, well then, I agree with them that it is their church. But it is not and cannot be the assembly of the believers and I make no division by departing their company for they have caused the division in the first place.

So let us consider all these verses and see what they will teach us by going back to the Holy Word itself.

Grace be with us all in it!

Lord, lead us into the reality of your Word concerning the elders!