[Thankful Jane]

Originally Posted by Toledo

So it's okay to make a general slur and insult on a wide group of people, then claim it doesn't apply to some of the individuals you included...? I'm sure you didn't mean this as ungraciously as it sounds.

Hi Toledo,

Would you mind quoting the general slur [speaking in an insulting or demeaning way] and insult [rude or insensitive or contemptuous comment] that I made on a wide group of people. Maybe I did this, but I don’t remember doing it.

Originally Posted by Toledo

To be fair, I was very much a young brother while WL was still alive. I had very few dealings directly with him. Except for keeping the rules of his various trainings, I cannot say that he ever made any particular demands on me.

Originally Posted by Toledo

And, yes, I appreciated his teachings, even as I appreciated the teachings of Lewis Sperry Chafer that were remarkably similar.

You make two points here. I shall try to answer both:

1) I cannot recall ever being asked to do anything against God's word. However, I realize that time is both a balm and an anesthetic -- maybe I have forgotten or have hidden away some lapse of conscience. Do you, perhaps, have an example that may refresh my memory. I am not at all sure of what you mean.

Did you go along with the quarantining of John Ingalls and Bill Mallon? I think it is clear now that this was in violation of the Word. The Bible tells us to receive all whom Christ has received. Witness Lee unrighteously labeled them and put them out. His followers were told to do likewise. Maybe you weren’t there then, but that would be one example.

Originally Posted by Toledo

2) "{I}sn’t such serving of someone else other than God an act of idolatry?"

Originally Posted by Toledo

Idolatry has to do with the worship of idols. The "such serving" to which you refer would seem to be more of an act of disobedience. Eve ate an apple (whatever...), submitting to the serpent against God's word, yet the bible never calls her an idolater.

I'm not saying that you haven't put your finger on some very serious offenses in the local churches. Rather that calling it idolatry is forcing a definition that simply does not fit. As much as Cinderella's step-sisters tried, they could not get their feet into Prince Charming's glass slipper.

At the beginning of this thread djohnson kept referring to "Leeaholisim", a made up term, and Matt corrected him -- there is no such thing as "Leeaholism". Unfortunately, calling the problem idolatry doesn't fit any better (then insisting that everyone who ever met with the local churches bought into idolatry fits even less).

I think Matt used the term idolatry because it was a biblical term whose meaning contains the idea behind “Leeholism.”

Part of the problem we are having on this thread is understanding what idolatry is and if it has any application to believers. Do you think the Bible teaches that it is only applicable to literal idol worshippers, meaning heathen that bowed down to wood or stone or molten idols?

I find that many misunderstandings and stalemated arguments occur because of failure to have a common understanding of terms being used. What explanation or definition do you find in the Bible? If you could give me verses I would appreciate that.

Have you ever really studied this topic before? I just started seriously looking at it this year. Idolatry is everywhere in the Old Testament, especially among God’s people. I think we are foolish if we don’t consider seriously the possibility that it has application to us today. I don’t believe that idolatry just went away and as believers we don’t need to be warned by its dangers.

Heb 2:1-3 Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.

For if the word spoken by angels was steadfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompense of reward;

How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

Heb 4:11 Let us labor therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Since we can fall into the same example of unbelief as the children of Israel, it seems prudent that we should study and understand their failures. When I try to do that, I find idolatry everywhere. This tells me I need to seek to understand how idolatry applies to us as believers. Paul seemed to think it applied.

I have been surprised to discover how much God equates idolatry with unfaithfulness to Him and with fornication and even whoredoms, both in the Old and the New Testaments. When the children of Israel fell into idolatry he often called their actions harlotry. He was very jealous over them. Paul tells us God is also jealous over us. Studying idolatry has helped me understand that He wants to relate to each of us directly as a husband and doesn’t want anyone or anything to come between us and Him. The second commandment says, “For I the Lord thy God am a jealous God ...” Understanding the perils of idolatry, and realizing that I unknowingly fell into it, has helped me want to walk in the light of His intense love and jealously and zealously guard my relationship with Him.

Thankful Jane