Quote:
Originally Posted by OBW
The question I have is this. Where do we get a promise of experience?
I do not find "joy" in the Bible to always be about an emotional high or lofty experience. In fact, some of the places joy is used it is evident that there is not an emotional high. Rather there is a kind of satisfaction in the realization of the truth. And the truth about our active (as opposed to theoretical understanding of) participation in the kingdom here on earth.
My concern is that the joy is the result of something else, not the thing that should be sought. And you haven't actually said to seek for joy. But joy should be the response to the knowledge of our participation in the kingdom more than something we work up to have an experience. You don't seem to exercise anything to get joy. You get joy from belief and from experience.
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Experience does not just mean "feeling." It's the whole gamut of things that we are aware of as we consciously go through life. Experience is what actually happens to us, externally and internally, as opposed to what we just theorize about. Of course, theorizing is part of our experience. But there is a difference between being in place and just thinking about being in the place.
A lofty experience isn't really lofty if it is sought simply for the lofty feeling, otherwise we could just take drugs to affect our emotions and be happy. Real satisfaction comes from knowing you have a real reason to be satisfied, not from the feeling itself. Feelings are the reflection of our experience of reality (and fantasy). But the fact is feelings exist and they are good, not bad. And I think being overly suspicious of them is unnecessarily limiting.
You, as we all know, value reason, and are bit suspicious of feelings. But I'm sure you wouldn't hold this perspective if at some level it didn't feel right to do so. In the end, what's more important, thoughts or feelings? I can't imagine life without either, so to me they are both important. Minimizing either too much is a mistake.
I'm hard-pressed to imagine experiencing "joy" without it affecting my feelings in some way. I'd like some examples where the Bible specifies that joy can be experienced without any feeling accompanying it. Satisfaction is the same way. I can't imagining truthfully saying I am satisfied without actually feeling satisfied. Surely you aren't going to argue that love does not include feeling. Love and joy with no feeling? Maybe in your reality, but not mine, sorry. Must be some parallel universe.
Let me put it this way, if your appreciation of what salvation has brought you doesn't make you occasionally want to dance with joy and happiness about it, then I'd say you don't appreciate it enough. If your emotion isn't affected by who God is and what he has done for us, then I'd say you're missing something.
There is
absolutely nothing wrong with
wanting to feel joy (who says "I have joy so I don't need to feel it." ?). As C.S. Lewis said, joy is the serious business of heaven. And
Dave is right, one of the best ways to feel joy is to go serve someone. Just make sure you don't muzzle the ox as he treads the grain.
Let me use another analogy. Theoretically you can have sex and reproduce without enjoying the act. But who the heck wants to do that?! Likewise, who wants to go through life without enjoying it? I don't think God begrudges us for wanting to feel good.