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Originally Posted by Dave
A God of wrath who is okay with eternal damnation/torment. What about all of the innocents? Don't you think that Christians should struggle with reconciling a God of love with a God of wrath and eternal damnation and tormenting of souls? Your scripture quotes appear to be dismissive of some important issues in this regard. Note that "It is for your piety that he reproves you…" Job 22:4-7,9-10
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God is just and does not condemn the innocent (2 Thess 1:6). People who end up in hell are not innocent but are reaping what they have sown.
Ezekiel 18:20
The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them.
Also "Innocent" has to be from God's point of view. What the world views as innocent is perhaps different from what an eternal, all powerful, all knowing God considers "innocent" and only his point of view matters because he is the Judge.
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Why should we condemn the Nazis for their killing of 6 million Jews and 20 million Russians? This is an example in your view of God's wrath as you have described it. Auschwitz... You like the picture...was that a picture of God's mercy and holiness? What did they do other than be Jewish? We can quote scripture and describe an unholy "god" who is merciless, worse than the Nazis. Is that your picture of your God? It's not mine!!! If it is than I don't want any part of your God and I can't understand why you wouldn't understand why others are troubled by these ideas and portrayed pictures of a merciless God who allows the innocents to be tormented.
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The suffering in this world, including the suffering of the Jewish people is not a result of God's wrath, though God can allow it by simply lifting his hand of protection. Matthew 12:20 seems to suggest that God won't lift a finger to judge the world until the "Day of the Lord". I guess this kind of contradicts Cahn's warning of judgment happening before Jesus comes-- unless it also coincides with the Day of the Lord / Daniel's 70th week and the events described in Revelation. Or perhaps God views these events as warnings rather than judgment, (God chastises his children because he loves them, Hebrews 12:6).
Matthew 12:20
A bruised reed he will not break, and a smoldering wick he will not snuff out, till he has brought justice through to victory.
I believe God is okay with allowing suffering because those who suffer will have their mourning made up for in eternity as was the case of Lazarus (Luke 16:14-31). However the rich man who enjoyed his life but ignored the poor suffered a horrible fate that could not be undone. Those who are first will be last and vice versa. The sermon on the mount also echoes this principle such as
Matthew 5:4
Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted.
Our current life is like a vapor or mist, we are here today and gone tomorrow (James 4:14). But because human experience is limited to the life we live in this world, we tend to overvalue our own life at the cost of our eternity, something that Jesus warned about a lot (Luke 9:60, Matthew 16:26). From the viewpoint of time, the only thing that matters is eternity and the decisions we make in this life that affect ours and other's eternity. Hence, the suffering that really matters in God's eyes, is the suffering that happens in eternity which trumps any suffering that happens while we are alive on this earth.
Matthew 16:26
For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?