Quote:
Originally Posted by Thankful Jane
Roger, there was no biblical balance offered. All I heard was people's dislike of what Matt said. He did not insist that you agree with him and even acknowledged the disagreements. He didn't shoot the messengers speaking to him, as you all did him. He put a shield on against the punches and stayed at the table. Again, where is the biblical argument you set forth against what Matt said?
Everyone has been screaming about a broad brush. Have you read your O.T. recently? The biggest broad brush user is God when it came to idolatry. He wanted all his people to face the question because they stumbled again and again in their blindness. The LC system was idolatrous to the core having become like Mystery Babylon the Great. God addressed that system in Rev. with with a broad brush, "Come out of her my people." Tell me how the LC system was not like Mystery Babylon? Was Mystery Babylon idolatrous?
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Dear Jane,
I did introduce a biblical balance. I said that the Bible does give us ground to be "for" things which in the extreme might not be Christ. We can be for the truth, the gospel, for loving others, for helping children, for discipleship, even for the "vision" of Christ and the Church," that is if we are for Jesus Christ first and we see being for these things as a pure expression of our love for him
and (and here is the test) we don't let being for any of those things or any others come between us and other believers.
Matt seemed to be saying that if you are for "the vision of Christ and the Church" you are ipso facto probably in idolatry. I can see how you could be because many who are for these things let them divide. But it ain't
necessarily so. Matt seemed to be saying it was necessarily so.
One question is, Is idol the right word? For example, is baptism an idol to the Baptists? Is predestination an idol to the Calvinists? Is tongue-speaking an idol to Pentecostals? If you say these people are into idolatry too then I'll respect your argument because then I'll understand it. But it's possible your first reaction will be "it depends," which is exactly what the counter-argument to you and Matt is here.
I will concede, however, that the LC system plainly set its members up to easily fall into idolatry, by emphasizing things to the point of making them a basis of fellowship, e.g. the local ground, the "ministry," the "recovery," etc. Just about everything that they claimed they had that no one else had or possibly even could have without their help, permission, blessing, franchise rights, whatever.