[Olvin]

Originally Posted by Igzy

I'm saying if you still revere Lee's vision of things, then you have more to learn than you know. I hope you learn it, because the reality is better than what he taught. Much better

If by revere you mean to hold as holy or sacrosanct, no. I your mean to honor and respect yes. Let me be clear, and the brothers that know me from Cleveland, Lorain, and Elyria can attest to this; I never preached the ground and objected vehemently when this became the word of intro to new ones. I did not agree with the one publication, nor the mandate to read the WL's messages in our meetings. It was always clear to me that God was moving among His people everywhere. I could only be were I was at that time, and I am thankful that He took me that way. Remember His sheep go in and out and find pasture. You need to learn how to eat fish without chocking on the bones!

Yes, I do. And I had to unlearn much of what Lee taught about it to actually get it right. I never truly understood what God's purpose is when I only had Lee's teachings.

You had to unlearning his teaching on full salvation: regeneration, sanctification, transformation, confirmation, glorification. Now you have them right? Please enlighten me - please.

The term "the ministry" is confusing and should be dropped. Lee abused it. It has a superiority connotation, especially when used in discussions involving him. But, regardless, the Bible doesn't talk in terms of "the ministry." The Bible says there are "many minstries." So talking about "the ministry" is really a form of exclusivism.

As I stated before, just because you are confused about the terms does not mean all are. The bible uses the term "this ministry" "the ministry" referring to a unique ministry, excluding all those void of life. Read your bible more brother. 2Cor. 3:9, 4:1, 5:18, Acts 1:17 an more.

The problem isn't the words. The problem is how you understand them. The words are a shell. It's what you see when you hear them that matters. I don't have a problem with the words; I have a problem with what they mean to the LC.

Yes brother, but how we understand is in control of the Holy Spirit wouldn't you agree. 1Cor.2:13 says Paul taught combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words. The natural man cannot receive the things of the spirit they are foolish to him even offensive. Recall John 6:63. Does eating and drinking the Lord, one of WL's favorite topics yet offend you?

Let me put it this way: The LC likes to talk about "expressing God." But that's nothing unique to them. All Christians know we need to express God. They might term it differently, but they mean the same thing. The problem with LCers is they congratulate themselves for saying it "right", but have not gotten around to actually doing it. In the meantime, a lot of other Christians whom LCers dismiss as not knowing God's purpose are actually expressing God. I think that's pretty ironic.

When I was a child we had an ice box in which we keep pop, which we drank sitting on a couch watching TV. 'You' may have had a refrigerator in which you keep soda or soft drinks, while sitting on a sofa watching the television set. I would never consider that you thought you we right and I wrong in using different terms. We both would have a cold drink, a soft seat, and a diversion. Maybe congratulations are in order for using the most syllables. I am not as confident as you that All christians know they need to express God, but what I am confident of is: that almost all christians care less about what LCers think about them than you do.

The mark of the first and second commandments, which Lee replaced with his economy. The mark of genuine humility, sacrifice, and service, which are all too rare in those who follow Lee. You are not really expressing God if you don't have those things.

Do you refer to loving God and neighbor being replaced by being filled with God and ministering God's life to others. Six in one hand half-a-dozen in the other, if you can count.

Olvin, forgive me for "jumping" on you. But I was being honest. I think you are more ignorant than you know. I think you need to get out and realize that the essence of God's purpose, not in Lee's terms, but the genuine essence of it, is being realized in a lot of places. And that is much more important that getting the terminology right.

Igzy, you ask for forgiveness while in the same breath calling me MORE ignorant than I (even) know. Brother you need to stay IN and realize your speech needs to be seasoned that you may minister grace. Brother it appears that you have been confused, befuddled, and dumbfounded, in respect to all the nonsense that went on in the LCs, this does not mean that everyone else was.

If you think God's purpose is best summed-up in Lee's phraseology, then I'm afraid all you really have is a phrase. You haven't really experienced the reality as much as you might think. Sorry, I've seen it in myself and in too many others. Cold water? Yes, I guess. Loving water? That too.