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Originally Posted by Dave
Jim Bakker is not exactly a ringing endorsement but whatever. I think people should just line up and buy these DVDs. You end up supporting an old time Christian Evangelical favorite and a new Christian Evangelical Messianic favorite. A two for one deal. Maybe these DVDs will provide more insight regarding the Inaugural Breakfast. Or maybe what happened over the last 20 years with Jim Bakker for those who want to know. Who knows what they will provide? I know we have beat this to death but maybe that is the intent of Cahn’s supporters in getting the message out… How about shooting for 600+ posts? That should do it.
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Well I have largely refrained from this discussion, tho I've read many posts, simply because it, and Cahn, are not very interesting to me. There are dozens of Cahns out there and I don't find any of them very interesting. Perhaps I am another Cahn with my "angels ascending and descending", who knows?
But I'll try to say a couple of things here. First, on the idea of American Exceptionalism, you know, a nation covenanted to God. I think that modeling any country in any age after OT Israel is kind of missing the point. Number one, we are a democracy not a theocracy and number two we separated church and state. Both probably were advances in the scheme of things.(I know- I'm a liberal. Shame on me).
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Originally Posted by Luke13:1-5
Now there were some present at that time who told Jesus about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. Jesus answered, “Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them—do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.”
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Yes, America needs to repent. Both North America and South America, for that matter. As does Switzerland and Zimbabwe. Where is the Exceptionalism here? Jesus said, "Unless you repent, you will all perish." To me that means everybody. Not just America the city on the hill. So if you try to go back to the OT with some kind of group covenant ... sorry I just don't get it.
My second point is this, about Jim Bakker. He was a country preacher from up north somewhere (I am going by memory here) like Minnesota. He got a TV station and a cable TV outlet and suddenly the money started rolling in. His ministry basically ended up with him & Tammy Faye standing in front of the camera and asking viewers for money. They would do a verse, a prayer, a song, a story, and then "We need your money."
He ran into trouble when he got too big for his britches. He started a theme park and solicited "time shares" and basically defrauded his customers. Daystar, anyone? He ended up in jail. He said it was sloppy book-keeping, not theft, but basically he bilked a lot of people out of money.
So what happened when he got out of prison? He stepped right back in front of the TV camera and said, "Folks, Praise the Lord!! Please send me some money for my ministry!" He went right back at it. He was hooked on easy money; he was addicted to it. Then I realized that some spirit(s) was controlling this guy.
So the fact that Cahn and he are in bed in money-making schemes is as much a "sign" to me as Cahn's pine tree in New York, or whatever he's waving. He and Lee and Cahn are representative of money-grubbing, mercantilistic, flag-waving, empire-building, hucksterism, thinly veiled with a few Bible verses.
Anyway this is my opinion. I could be wrong. Cahn could be today's Amos, warning the nation of the doom to come. Who knows? But if he's doing it on Jim Bakker's TV show forgive me if I tune him out. I think if God's wrath is coming then maybe Jim Bakker and Jonathan Cahn and Witness Lee will all be in the same dark room. Really, none of us knows. But please forgive me, and don't take it personal, if I don't feel like following these kinds of people. I spent some time with Witness Lee's crew of True Believers and that was enough for me. I'm allergic now.