[Thankful Jane]

Originally Posted by Shawn

Hi Matt,

The Drug abuser was only an example; my point was the lack of experience that is leading you to conclusions that are lacking substantiation, as evidenced by the abundance of counterpoints to your arguements from LC'ers.

Your response has been to address the example and not the 800 pound gorilla, of lack of experience that are weakening your argument.

I never said one does not treat the drug abuser, only that drawing from the experiences of one who has been there is the most effective way.

Dear Shawn,

In what I have bolded above, it seems you are adding to the “Matt does not have enough experience to speak as he has done on this thread” theme.

I feel I should speak to Matt’s "experience" since that argument seems to keep coming up. I think it is better for me to do this than for Matt to have to continue to stand up alone to the 800 pounds worth of "counterpoint" punches that he has received on this thread.

I'd like to respectfully point out that Matt does not have a lack of experience when it comes to the topic of spiritual abuse in the Local Churches, which is reason for this thread. In brief he is qualified to speak because he is a 2nd generation LCer (this thread is about those from the 2nd generation) who is now an adult survivor of spiritual abuse carried out by an idolatrous, abusive LC leadership. And he didn't just survive, I might even venture to say, he overcame in this matter.

Today He is a fervent lover of Jesus and of every member of the body of Christ including those still in the LSM/LC. He has a heart that is open and willing to fellowship with any and all, at any time. He also loves the Word of God word for word. He is in a position to see the LC in terms of idolatry, having been sacrificed on one of the altars of Lee. He cares enough about those who did this to him and to many of his friends, to share with them what he learned in the process of recovering. He reads the Bible outside the Lee garlic room now. You would be astounded to hear the things God has shown him in the Old Testament, and not just about idolatry. He has shared very little on this forum of what he has learned there--in the Scriptures (O.T.), which, by the way Paul told Timothy were able to make him wise unto salvation.

I note that the punches have mainly been made against his person and experience, not against his biblical arguments or the historical facts he has presented about Lee’s history. One of the striking things missing against Matt's biblical presentations has been solid biblical refutation. I admit that there has been some, but it is worthy of note that this was done mainly by Peter Debelak, who is also a 2nd generation LCer.

Matt may not have experience as an LC leader who is saturated with the teachings of Lee and is qualified to abuse, but he most definitely has experience of being on the receiving end of such. If you and others are trying to say he didn't know Lee's teachings well enough to speak to them, them you have no basis to say that, not knowing the facts.

Matt has a high capacity for absorbing information. He has been like that since early childhood. He grew up in an environment where Lee’s teachings were the main diet. He heard them day after day in his own home, which he shared with the small army of sisters who lived with us over the years. When we left, I encouraged him to read life studies and I even read them to/with him, hoping they would help him. After we were out, we spent a number of years working through family problems that forced us to face our past and dig down to the level of our wrong beliefs and find what lay at the root of them. We had to rethink Lee's teachings and discover what the Bible actually teaches about what he said. We (including Matt) had many, many discussions about Lee’s teachings among ourselves and with other ex Local Churchers, using the Bible as our guide through them. The Lord brought brothers like Bill Mallon and John Ingalls for extended visits to our home a number of times and Matt had fellowship with them one on one, especially with Bill.

I’d like to ask just what experience do all the counterpointers have to be able to speak about this topic? Maybe the 800 lb. gorilla is their inexperience with regard to understanding 2nd generation abuse. How many of them have had the experience of being sacrificed on Lee's altar? (I don’t have the time here to share about how this happened to Matt, but maybe I will later.) How many of them have taken the time to follow up with 2nd generation LCers or to help them recover? How much time have they spent studying the Scriptures on their own, without the Lee veil? So, again, maybe the 800 lb. gorilla is their inexperience, not Matt’s.

Matt mercifully did not end up in one of the categories introduced in the opening post of this thread, as many of his friends did. As I said, I suspect he may have more right to speak here than many of those who have been doing so. He has helped other 2nd generation LCers recover. Have any of the naysayers here done that?

Honestly, Shawn, when I saw some of the posts accusing Matt that he was acting like WL as the oracle, I felt deeply ashamed that any one would speak this way to a young man who survived their 1st generation-created system and yet loves them enough to be here dialoguing with them. I can assure you he has a real life outside of this forum with enough involvements with family, job, and other Christians to fill his hands. I would not be surprised to see him leave here. In fact, I think I would recommend it. I am considering doing the same and allowing all of you to have your chats with one another and remember the glory days of old until Jesus comes, without having to think about possible explanations for our past that are uncomfortable. I haven’t asked the Lord about that yet, so I don’t know if He will let me leave, but I am going to be asking.

I have wept over what happened among us. I have seen others do the same. Shouldn’t we be weeping at the broken down walls of God’s house (family) and the heaps of rubble (His wounded children) left behind? Shouldn’t we be weeping in response to realizing how much abuse and destruction took place among us?

Shouldn’t we all humble ourselves and ask the Lord to have mercy on us. Shouldn’t we all repent for what happened among us because we all played a part in creating an environment that opened the door for abuse. If God is weeping, shouldn’t we join him?

Thankful Jane