[zeek]

Originally Posted by Dave

I agree that he certainly is bringing new fire to Christianity but if you take the political out of Cahn’s Breakfast speech you are not left with much. While I think it is prudent to follow up on his involvement with the Kabballah issue the political overtones are the most prominent as I explain below.

I went over the Inaugural Breakfast speech by Cahn in January 2013 again. Cahn states, “In ancient times, there was a nation known as the kingdom of Israel. It had been founded on God’s word, dedicated to His will, and consecrated to His purposes…They abandoned the ways of God, the laws of God, the standards of God for immorality.”

He goes on to say, “But there was another civilization that was likewise founded on God’s word, dedicated to His will, and consecrated to His purpose, from its very inception—America. He then goes on about how America has befallen to the same sad state of affairs as Israel back in the day.

First, Cahn is rewriting the US history. Our country was founded on democratic principles and values and not on God’s word. We are a nation of laws with three branches of government. Second, the Israel Cahn was talking about was a theocracy (a term used by Josephus for the kingdoms of Israel and Judah). They only became a democracy over the last 60+ years. The God of Israel according to the Bible murdered men, women and innocent children throughout the OT. Because we live in a democracy people like Cahn have the right to speak at a Presidential Breakfast. I wouldn’t have it any other way because in Nazi Germany they took the rights of people away after Hitler led them into nationalism and totalitarianism with his strident speeches. He killed democracy.

The US has certainly gone through a lot of changes and changes cause anxiety which should for Christians result in prayer. I remember back in 1967 hitch-hiking to my parents in N.C. when I stopped along the way and there were separate bathrooms for blacks and whites even though the Civil Rights Act was passed by Congress in 1964. People quoted the Bible in an effort to justify discrimination and beatings/hangings in the South. People today quote the Bible to justify all kinds of things and actions. I do not want a theocracy!

All of which I agree with, but which , apart from the factual differences about American history which I also agree with and are determinable, is just a long way of saying you disagree with the guy's politics, like I said below. You're preaching to the choir when you tell me this stuff. But, what makes that more than our political opinions? I already agreed about the historical part. Is that all there is? Is that enough? Hey, it could be argued that the country moved in a liberalizing direction in the past. What is to say that going in a conservative direction now would be somehow wrong? How do we know that we don't need a course correction as a nation? What exactly is God's political position? If someone actually has transcendent knowledge, then that individual or group of people should rule the country not democracy. Isn't that what the Christian Right is actually claiming they have--The Truth? Democracy is only best if the absolute truth is indeterminable. Since no one knows for sure the best way, we throw it open to a vote. Isn't that implied in what you are saying?