Quote:
Originally Posted by OBW
If it weren't true that would be funny.
I realize that I have defended the RCC in a minor way lately. But my defense is never of this kind of nonsense. As a whole, while I am more generous with the RCC than many (even among my current flock), it is only related to the understanding of salvation. In almost all other ways, they really do seem to be intent upon pushing it so far that they don't even have a lampstand to light the way.
But on salvation, I am convinced that they really believe in Christ, and that is the crux of salvation. No, they don't "come to faith" through some crisis that results in a line-in-the-sand "sinner's prayer." And Luther had it right when he tried to point out that salvation is more secure than they like to teach and much more secure than so many of their flock somewhat superstitiously believe.
I know some will argue that they preach a works-based salvation. And that is at least partly true. But if you come to believe, then the fact that you also did some pointless works to get there (in your own mind) doesn't change the fact of belief. Do you think that God will reject my belief because I also did some works under the mistaken thought that they were necessary to gain salvation?
I know this was not mentioned here, but I am getting a little tired of evangelicals' barely admitting that there might be some saved people within the RCC. While there is probably more room for cultural attendance without belief within that system, I think that in the final analysis, the number who are found in the Lamb's Book of Life will be much greater than we typically want to think. If there was ever an argument for the people despite many arguments against the system, the RCC is the poster child, with the LRC fighting tooth-and-nail to take their place.
And I still have no desire to convert to Catholicism and really shake my head at those who do. But I realize that there is a wealth of excellent theology and teaching from within the RCC. You just can't get there if you don't actually believe (IMHO).
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Balanced and sound thoughts, bro OBW, loving & caring too.
To bring it back around to the GEP according to Witness Lee:
Witness Lee claimed that GEP is God mingling with man, accomplished by eating Jesus, by calling on the name and pray-reading.
The host-nailing Jews (I read some 10-15 yr'ago whole cities of Jews were burned for doing it) reveals the truth about the bread and wine becoming the flesh and blood of Jesus. If their claim was/is real and actual, not just superstitious make-believe, they wouldn't have killed the Jews. They would have said something like: "They know not what they do."
But they're not the only ones holding to such silly superstitions. I did a lot of eating and drinking of Jesus, while in the LC, being mingled day in and day out, for years and years.
And now look at me. What happened to all that mingling, all that deification, all that theosis, if you will, that was suppose to be going on in my being all those years? I sure wasted a lot of time doing those things.
How could I be going around calling God deaf, dumb, and mute, if I were transformed, even partially?
In truth, I wasn't eating Christ, any more than the RCC, with their transubstantiation -- and the Eastern Orthodox, for that matter, with their Metousiosis -- are eating the flesh and blood of Christ. Where's the fruit?
But maybe mingling does happen today. What do I know for certain? I haven't seen it, beyond doubt and question. But I haven't and can't see everybody.
I think that maybe Francis of Assisi would be a contender as an example of fruit, of mingling with God. Others too. But I didn't know them. And don't know their position and beliefs on mingling with God. Plus, I've noticed something about great people from the past: They aren't great until the myth makers finish with them.
"they (the Jews) attempt to burn the Hosts, but are unsuccessful, as the Hosts transform into an infant carried by angels."
LOL. Talk about myth making. At least it's laughable ... it's got that going for it.